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[Hector Black <hblack1925@fastmail.fm>]

Hello Everyone,

    I remember seeing grapes growing into trees in some orchards in Italy.  Partly I suppose the shortage of tillable land, but it was interesting.  Looked like pear and apple trees and the cordons were draped over the upper limbs of the fruit trees which were pruned not to be but about 10ft. or less  where the top branches came out and bend downward, so they had quite a bit of sun there in the middle of the tree.  Hector Black, zone 6 middle TN  Wishing Happy Holidays to all, and watch out for those Consultants!  (in sheeps clothing yet)

----- Original Message -----

From: Lon Rombough

To: North American Fruit Explorers

Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 10:47 PM

Subject: Re: [NAFEX] grow grapes on pines?

The few times I've seen grapes growing near conifers, they didn't do well. Most conifers cast shade that is deeper than that of deciduous trees, and their limbs are denser, making it hard for the grapes to do well. In the places where I've seen wild grapes growing, I never saw them on conifers. Also, the resins produced by conifers seem to have adverse effects on many types of vines. The evidence I have is more anecdotal than scientific, but I would be strongly inclined to avoid conifers as a tree to plant grapes on. The Italians, who have made the most use of growing grapes on trees, seem to prefer oaks, poplars, and the like.
-Lon Rombough

Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
On Dec 22, 2004, at 7:54 PM, road's end farm wrote:


On Tuesday, December 21, 2004, at 11:19 AM, Charles Paradise wrote:

So what do you all think? Are you for my planting the grapes at the base of the pines, or against it?
Charlie Paradise
zone 5ish Massachusetts

I was also waiting for Lon to weigh in on this, but maybe he's not going to.

I think the climates in which grapes are often grown mixed in with trees are further south. In Massachusetts, I'd plant them well away from the trees; I think they're going to need all the sun they can get. Grapes growing even in corners of vineyards near trees in my area often don't ripen as well as those further from the woods.

Try also to get them somewhere where you can get good airflow through the vines, to dry them as fast as possible after rains. Grapes in shade and/or poor airflow are more liable to diseases, especially in the ripening fruit bunches.

If the rest of the lot is shaded even more than the bottoms of the pine trees, then you could give the pines a try. The pines may not be happy about the grapes, though, if the grapes escape pruning and climb all over the tops of them.


--Rivka
Finger Lakes NY; zone 5 mostly

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