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  • From: "Thom McConathy" <>
  • To: <>, "North American Fruit Explorers" <>
  • Cc:
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] RE: Cherries
  • Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 16:16:20 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: "Griffin Gardens" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] RE: Cherries

> Hello Richard and Richard,
> Yes the Geisla (Geisen) rootstocks are patented and cannot be purchased
> separately - you have to get them with a cultivar attached and pay the
> royalty on both. They seem to be more available in the commercial
> of the west, which is where most of mine came from. I got some face time
> with some of the nursery people while there on a fruit vacation a couple
> years ago, which helped immensely to convince some of them that what I was
> trying to do was worthy of their taking their time and trouble to sell me
> individual trees if I reported back to them on survival... or else they
> decided that selling me trees the quickest way to get rid of me. Actually,
> I was very pleasantly surprised at the interest they showed. I think some,
> not all, have a genuine interest in the trees themselves at that level,
> over and above that of mere product. This is much more evident over a desk
> than over the phone though. By the way, that fruit tour up the Okinagon is
> one I'd recommend to anybody interested in fruit and fruit growing - lots
> of small orchards, all with a fruit stand on the hiway where the guy
> selling the fruit also prunes the trees. Great learning esperience, not to
> mention you can fill up on tree ripened peaches every day.
> Raintree has the largest number of cultivars on Gisela 5 that I am aware
> of in the retail trade. My Hudson cherry came from Adams County Nursery in
> PA(wholesale with retail sales at a higher price), and Sweet Sept (on
> GM-61) from Burnt Ridge, retail in WA.
> I think the main benefit from having a hardy understock for a tender
> is induction of early dormancy of the cultivar by the rootstock. This
> doesn't always happen and it isn't always enough, but it helps some,
> especially when combined with other horticultural methods to do this like
> late season nutrient and water deprivation. Under these conditions, I see
> my peaches on Siberian C and P. americana drop their leaves earlier than
> those on Bailey, and much earlier than the ones on Halford and Lovell. I
> don't expect the same results with sweets on the tart cherry seedlings as
> these have a very late senescence themselves, but at least they wouldn't
> killed by freezing. I might also get some dwarfing from North Star, a
> natural dwarf. Come on now, I can't believe somebody hasn't already tried
> this. I'd really like to know what you found, good or bad.
> I don't think sweets are compatible on black cherry, but I have a two
> year olds on P. fruiticosa and P.padus for trial. So far they look good.
> I had good germination on my tart cherry seeds both with refrigerator
> stratified and fall planted. Most Prunus needs a month of warm strat
> cold, which is often overlooked. Otherwise you can just plant them when
> fruit is ripe and let nature do the work. The rodents eat them like they
> were chocolate covered though, and they must be protected.
> Dave
> Central Mn, zone 4a
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <>
> > To: <>; <>
> > Date: 7/30/03 9:08:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NAFEX] RE: Cherries
> >
> > Yes Dave, plenty of windmills -- and even more things that would benefit
> > from a good poke with a sharp stick.
> >
> > I would be very interested to hear how you get on with the sweets
> > grafted onto hardy sour cherries, since I was planning on trying such
> > things myself. I will definitely have a go grafting onto some wild Black
> > Cherry (although it all seems to have something that looks like black
> > knot). My Meteor and Bali pits from last year did not sprout well --
> 2
> > of 20 -- probably because I left them out under the snow instead of
> > refrigerating them. I am trying some semihardwood cuttings, but without
> > much expectation of success.
> >
> > Clearly if the rootstock is not hardy enough, that is a bad idea and I
> > agree about mindless wholesalers. (It is even more annoying to see
> > places, as they do around here, selling things that would have almost no
> > hope of surviving without extreme measures). However, I have never been
> > clear as to the degree of hardiness which is actually conferred by a
> > rootstock. Okay, the roots are hardier than they would otherwise be but
> > the upper scaffold, even to the buds, really rendered hardier? What is
> > mechanism supposed to be, sap composition?
> >
> > Where did you get cherries grafted on Gisela 5? I suppose it is
> > Frankly I think this is a travesty. Such things should be given
> > protection (i.e. the name should be protected), but the patenting of
> living
> > organisms is simply appalling to me.
> >
> > I haven't seen Hudson or Sweet September for sale, but maybe I wasn't
> looking.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > On 30 Jul, Griffin Gardens wrote:
> > > Excelsior, Sancho! There are windmills to be tilted.
> > > I tried to get all my trees on Gisela 5 for the improved hardiness
> it,
> > > which doesn't take much when most sweets are budded on mazzard. I lost
> a 3
> > > year old North Star on mazzard because the buried bud union hadn't had
> time
> > > to get onto it's own roots, and the mazzard roots were killed. The
> > > giant wholesale grower propagates it only on mazzard - why put a zone
> > > tree on zone 5 roots I don't know - but now I bud my own on seedlings
> > > Meteor, North Star or Mesabi. I will be trying sweets on these next
> year.
> > > Anybody had any experience with this?
> > > Meanwhile, I was successful getting Gisela 5 trees except for dead
> Black
> > > Gold (supposed to be more hardy) and dead Summit were on Mazzard. Live
> > > Hudson (most hardy cv., maybe) is on mazzard. Live Kristin and Sweet
> > > September are on GM-61 and live Ulster is on G-6.
> > > The list is for 1st winter trees only. I have 2 winter trees of
> Lapins(1
> > > ea on G-5 and G-6), Hedlefingen (GM-61), Kristin (G-5) and Rainier
> (G-6).
> > > The few flower buds on these were killed, but there was virtually no
> > > dieback in spite of a long wet fall. Seems to say the older the
> > > Recovery has been vigorous on all trees since the June 6th
> was
> > > made. New growth ranges from 18" - 24" in spite of deer eating it off
> twice
> > > early on. These sweets do great here in the summertime, its just the
> winter
> > > that might be a little problem.
> > >
> > > Dave
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