Mounted search and rescue

["E.S." <ES212@QWEST.NET>]

a good answer!!! , keep the hard work Irvin.

E.s

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Irvin Lichtenstein " <ilichten1@verizon.net>
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Reaction to Dion


> The lurker who popped up, Mr. Dion, without stating his affiliations or
> credentials is reported to be a paid NASAR instructor and board member of
> that organization.  He has an obvious conflict of interest in pushing 
> NASAR
> Testing.  When entering a discussion of this subject within a volunteer
> community you should reveal your affiliations and offer credible 
> references.
>
> Not doing so and the e-mail showing up from someone claiming unstated
> credentials created a possible knee jerk reaction.  There are "volunteers"
> who get paid to volunteer for committees and go to meetings and 
> conferences
> by supposedly non-profit organizations and there are those who really
> volunteer their time and expertise.  I have requested Mr. Dion to supply 
> his
> credentials off list with no response as yet.
>
> The average MSAR member spends thousands of dollars per year on their 
> mount,
> insurance, tack, vehicles, fuel, and training costs.  I board and my
> accountant figures I spend over $6000 per year, plus time and dues to 
> NASAR,
> ASTM, APCO, Keystone State Fire Instructors, local and state equine
> councils, donated time and services to the local MSAR, Red Cross, 
> volunteer
> fire company, and Rotary. Because I teach management, not suppression
> courses, I spend my time keeping up to date, not teaching, at the fire
> academy.
>
> Many of us on this lister have been volunteering for over 20 years. Many
> have written peer reviewed articles on MSAR, on SAR; helped found
> significant organizations, such as ASTM F32 or state SAR councils, and 
> have
> assisted with writing or adopting minimum expectations.  We provide this
> information at no charge. And until old age or cardiac conditions finally
> keep us at home when a search is going on we will still respond when
> dispatched. We have seen intellectual property stolen by others and then
> sold in books without crediting the source.  And we have seen the rise of
> the expert with no experience.
>
> There are several items of information you should consider when evaluating
> what you read: who wrote it, is it consistent with other sources, who
> reviewed the materials, and who paid for it to be written.  I qualify my
> statements by geography because I have only dealt with certain geography.
> I have attended training and meetings in PA, NJ, MD, DE and CO.  I have 
> been
> involved with training in PA for over 30 years and have an idea how it
> works. I also know why NASAR materials and testing were rejected by the PA
> state training system because I was there.
>
> We do do things a little differently in PA than in other places. We insist
> that instructors be trained in the course material, how to teach that
> course, and how to teach, and attend continuing education.  Curricula for
> the fire service is reviewed by the state fire academy, EMS by the Health
> Department, and rescue by both.  The state department of education then 
> does
>
> QA on the teaching process through the community colleges.  Out of state
> instructors must apply for visiting status and present credentials and
> material for review.
>
> Wilderness SAR is not a required public safety function in PA. There is no
> state law or code that requires a municipality to have a SAR organization.
> We just passed a law (2009) that requires localities to have EMS, and pay
> for fire and EMS services out of their budgets. We have townships, not
> counties. There are 93 fire chiefs and 63 police chiefs in my county, plus 
> a
> township or two that use state police instead of local police.  We even 
> have
> multiple 9-1-1 PSAPS in our county because we have local police that 
> insist
> on being dispatched locally, not by the regional center.
>
> Unfortunately, having been around for a while means I have a stack of
> t-shirts that say "been there, done that" on them.  If you want to 
> reinvent
> the wheel, fine.  There is a lot of expertise available, often for free,
> often for the travel expenses only.  But do the research first. Hiring
> instructors, particularly from out of state to bring in so-called national
> programs is a lot like on-line dating, no guarantees that the picture
> matches.
>
> Irv Lichtenstein
> Chief of Operations
> SE PA SAR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hill, Victoria
> L.
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:42 AM
> To: Mounted search and rescue
> Subject: Re: [MSAR] MSAR Standards
>
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