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  • From: "Rick Williams" <mrfarm AT frontiernet.net>
  • To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [Market-farming] Scratching My Head/praying
  • Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:03:56 -0600

Leigh Hauter wrote:
> We have a running joke out this way about 'the market' as if there
> was such a thing outside of politics. We are always looking for the
> god that operates this system. As in, 'the market god'. Or, as in
> 'the devil is in the details.'

There is ALWAYS a market at ALL times and no exceptions. Those who ignore
the market, do so at their own peril. Even in Red Communist Russia, at the
height of the one of the most repressive regimes on earth, the market still
functioned in opposition to the central government. So-called "Black
Markets" develop in such cases to supply at real wants of real people.

> Earth to Rick. The market is created by people, mostly these days
> created by people who live and work around Washington DC and/or
> Geneva Switzerland and/or a few other capitals around the world.

Real world to Leigh. The main skewing of the market is from the distortions
of subsidies within a country or from taxing.
Sometimes, in a mixed economy, such as the U.S. economy, which is part
socialist and part free market, we want to have those distortions. Up to a
point. But you can never please everyone all the time.

> As some examples of why this strange religion needs so much faith
> look at the stuff that is used to work 'the market'. That paper
> stuff. Who agreed that stuff meant anything? Some sort of god of the
> market? Not. Why do you use dollars instead of euros instead of
> seashells? Who decides that contracts means anything? That
> agreements on paper like corporations are to be treated just like
> people. How come oil companies don't pay taxes while this little CSA
> operator just paid a bundle last weekend. How come there are such a
> thing as off shore banking/tax havens? Does the market god really
> live on semi tropical islands in the Caribbean and that's why it
> rewards 'corporations' who come there to worship with their special
> banks?

That is a lot of territory to cover, Leigh. Sometime we might discuss how
money came about and why it works the way it does, but we will set that
aside for today. But that kind of knowledge is very helpful to fully
understand market economics and that impacts market farmers perhaps more
than the average person who doesn't have to worry about such things in
making their livlihood.

But in a way you answered your own questions to a certain extent in that
when things get too extreme with taxation, people move off shore. And the
reason they do it obviously ... is because they can. So they do it. And it
changes the market dynamics.

> (oh, back to the original point - how should 'the market' increase
> organic feed. We could do what we did for the oil industry. We
> could have the government buy a whole bunch of it and keep it in
> 'strategic reserve'. We can change the scriptures -of, excuse me,
> laws - and redefine what it is. We could change the scriptures so
> everyone has to use this produce -increasing demand. We could also
> interpreter the scriptures in such a way that no one could produce
> any other sort of feed).

We could only do that by eliminating that annoying road block ... the U.S.
Constitution and its accompanying freedom. I know that some of you here
oppose the Constitution and have been rather open about it in the past and
even suggesting that there will be a huge groundswell to change it. My best
educated guess says you are wrong:)

> The priests of the market, no doubt serving their god do this sort
> of thing all the time with literally thousands and thousands of
> products and services and trades. That's why the city where I do
> business is so full of market priests, and market worshipers who come
> to pray and give offerings in the hope that 'the god will look
> favorably on their prayers and give their special industry special
> benefits.

The market decisions are made by all of us on a daily basis, both rich and
poor, as we decide what we wish to buy and what we reject to buy based on
our own value system. A value system that may or may not accept organic
products as something that has the right price/performance value. This
carries over to other organic suppliers if there are not enough organic
products being sold that need the input products.

The government has almost nothing in terms of impact on organic products
other than to place an organic stamp of approval on certified products for
labelling information of that product. Otherwise it is up to a willing
seller and a willing buyer to hammer out the price.

If organic feed really is needed, it will be produced at the price point
that the producers find economically viable. The users of the input simply
HAVE to pay more, whether they like it or not. No different than any other
product or service of the market.

Sincerely,

Rick Williams




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