Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Andeanfx" <andeanfx@midrivers.com>]

Pete, you are clear. hehehe  I did not take that as a criticism and I agree with you very well, especially on the Dr.s and such.  I paid a visit to one of these very secure places for several weeks where they tell you exactly what your are and are not going to do and call it teaching you responsibility.

 

 

I have been through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened. -- Mark Twain

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Pete Vukovich

To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 8:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Cities of Light

Being a smoker myself something you said 'lit' me up. I think people do want to change, I think most of them don't see a viable way to do so, but subconsciously are savvy enough to know there aren't going to be simple solutions. The problem I think is we often confuse difficult with doomed. Well at least I know I do a lot of the time.

Certainly the majority of the mainstream culture reinforces that feeling - it has a lot invested in doing so. You can't diagnose your own illness since you're not a doctor - so just double up on your <latest seratonin re-uptake inhibitor thats untested here>, you can't grow your own food since you have no idea how hard it is to kill a chicken - so instead just hit the freezer and pop something from tyson foods in the microwave, you can't possibly protect yourself from someone intent on doing you harm so instead of trying just be thankful you have an army somebody else runs working for you (or a cop). We live in a world that is largely at odds with allowing people to develop personal responsibility while giving lip service to it at every turn. After all people who aren't working are just lazy socialists with grandiose senses of entitlement aren't they (or so I'm told)? They just don't want to feel useful like those humanitarians on wall street doing 'gods' work moving money around making bets based on bad math, and what about those guys are they really as soulless as they are clueless? Delusion really doesn't need to be a separate word from normal. Yntil you know the source of someone's personal delusions you aren't likely to shine a light on them accept by dumb luck.

 Taking B-3 might help curb the immediate cravings, but it won't put a dent in dealing with pompous clueless doctors, irate patients, or watching people suffer when there is little to nothing you can do about it, let alone the things that slowly and consistently grind the life out of people.  Nicotine on the other hand can make daily hell's seem passable right up until it kills you. After all, we both know B-3 won't stimulate nor epinephrine the way nicotene does, and since its not delivered in concentrated burst the way nicotene in a cigarette is you won't get the adrenal rush you need to stay alert. I apologize up front if this sounds like a criticism, you were trying to help someone - and in spite of your efforts you couldn't reach them. I don't think it was about your sincerity or their stated desire not to quit, I don't think it hardly ever is. But I do not think we should dismiss the forces that prevent change lightly - or be dismissive of whether they should be obliterated, coopted, or ignored.

What would make someone quit smoking? Hard to say, but given that most people treat smokers like pariahs to begin with and they have learned they are targets - consequently they are instinctively defensive. Even a dog will push back if it thinks its going to get smacked. Certainly it takes bravery to intervene and approach someone you know little about, just as it takes a certain bravery to admit to a potential adversary you don't know that you are weak. But as my partner once said and I think it was the most important thing I ever heard, "There is a lot of dignity in getting knocked down and standing up on your own two feet".

What I think this adds up to is that we are still a long way from coming up with strategies that will convince people that change is necessary and possible - we have hardly scratched the surface in fact and we can expect to get knocked down quite a few times before we see much progress. Pride will trump necessity, and depression a desire to survive anyday - but dignity is still a mighty fine thing to have.
 


--- On Mon, 12/27/10, Andeanfx <andeanfx@midrivers.com> wrote:

From: Andeanfx <andeanfx@midrivers.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Cities of Light
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:25 PM

My-OH-My.  I was talking to a youngish nurse who literally stunk of cigarette smoke and told her vitamin B-3 aka nicotinic acid, I believe, is the mirror image of nicotine and can often curb the desire for a smoke.  She was nice but let me know she did not want the desire curbed.  She enjoyed it, her entire family smoked they each enjoyed and they enjoyed smoking together.

If one has 100 people (easy for % calculations).  Take out those who don't want to change.  That is a bunch.  Take out those who cannot be "assured enough" of their success which I would not be much good at giving because there is a pretty darn steep learning curve.  Got rid of another bunch. Take out those that don't make the learning curve.  Take out those who are unwilling to unlearn what they have been taught.  Take out those that don't have a clue as to what has been done to typical garden space of the world by tilling, chemical fertilizers, hard water and above ground irrigation. Don't forget those who are working extra jobs just to keep ahead of the bill collector; those who have been in the food and medical  system long enough to be disabled by and of course there are those who are just too damn lazy to give a rip, I guess maybe I repeat myself but it goes on and on.  Will someone please enlighten me as to from where this large percentage of the people to educate is to come?  I think we moved to the right of decimal some time ago.

Really????




I have been through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened. -- Mark Twain


----- Original Message ----- From: "tanya" <tanyagarden@gmail.com>
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Cities of Light


> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Liz <liz@allslash.org> wrote:
>> I wish I knew what would spark people's interest--a larger percentage of
>> people, I mean. ...
>
> Need alone isn't enough. People also have to know they'll succeed, and
> they have to know how to store and cook with the bounty. So a massive
> education campaign, with lots of local hands-on teaching, couldn't
> hurt.
>
> The rising popularity  of school gardens in some places should help:
> get them interested while they're young. And I love that Michelle
> Obama started a kitchen garden at the White House and is talking about
> healthy eating.
>
> A historical perspective helps: during WWI and WWII, victory gardens
> in the U.S. supplied a huge percentage of produce eaten. The
> government promoted them endlessly.
> _______________________________________________
> Livingontheland mailing list
> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland

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