Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[<mdnagel@verizon.net>]

What's wrong with pointing out the obvious?

Why do we pretend that nature's laws on population control (which ultimately 
translate to total overall consumption) don't apply to humans?

It IS about carrying capacity.  This has nothing to do with whether one likes 
or doesn't like people.

The planet's population is currently 6.5 billion.  At the turn of the 19th 
century (just over 100 years ago) it was 2 billion.

I would encourage people to watch Dr. Albert Bartlett's lecture "Arithmetic, 
Population and Energy" for a holistic explanation of how all this interacts.  
NOTE: he's given this presentation over 1,700 times.

All food systems, with the exception of hunter gatherer societies (which are 
very few), require production of food at one location and the consumption at 
another (even from your backyard to your kitchen).  The "modern" system has 
managed to extend that through the use of cheap fossil fuels, which has 
resulted in, as capitalism is so good at doing, exploitation of environments. 
 As such, _some_ populations which have relied upon this far-reaching modern 
system will, as cheap fossil fuels decline, shrink.

We talk a lot about food production and how we can reduce the energy put into 
it, but there's also the energy component that lies within that of food 
collection, processing and distribution.  And that's still a significant 
issue, one that is IMHO severely overlooked (one could say that these things 
are being externalized).

I like Ken, and many here do as well, but I'm not going to let dangerous 
statements like he made slip by.  It's like touting permaculture without 
grasping/practicing the necessary cultural changes.  Responsible people, such 
as Ken, who are looked up to don't/shouldn't make wide open statements like 
this.  Dr. Bartlett would agree with me on this point.

Bottom line: No matter how superior we think "our" methods are (or "we" are), 
WE CANNOT MEET THE NEEDS OF INFINITE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE.  This is the thinking 
that got us into this predicament in the first place; it needs to be tempered.


-Mark Nagel
Everett, WA


From: Carrie Shepard <carrieshepard@yahoo.com>

Mark, Mark, Mark,  how many children do you have?     In just one earthquake, 
the Chinese population has been reduced by 51,000.     My daughter's 
generation of poorly fed kids are'nt healthy enough to have abundant 
children, most of them don't want children anyway since they've been fed the 
anti-child anti-reproduction propaganda their entire public school lives.  
Actually many in my generation -- I'm 41 -- have only had one, two, or no 
children.  I have cousins who have no children and will not have children, so 
my aunt and uncle's line is gone.  We're not even replacing ourselves anymore 
with such a low birthrate.</div>  <div> </div>  <div>You'll have no-one who 
wants to eat what you grow if you continue to hate people so.     Those of us 
who have lost children, perhaps have a much different value system on human 
life,    Carrie  who grows food to feed PEOPLE, as many as I can, I will.