Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["rfreez" <rfreez14@netzero.net>]

I'm probably going to try Melendez's potion, but I agree that we need to 
haul organic debris to our farms.  I hoard the leaves from my neighborhood, 
and I make about 80 trips to a horse farm every year (sure wish I had a 
bigger truck!).  I take the bagged leaves that I hoarded from my idiot 
neighbors, rip open the bags, and make an 18 inch fluffy pile of leaves, 
then I seal the top and sides of the pile with horse manure.

My ground (it can't be called soil) is New England red clay.  The topsoil 
was scraped off by the $%@!ing developers who built my house.  So I'm 
rebuilding this land from scratch.  I'm willing to try anything, including 
Melendez's nostrum, and I will report back with brutal honesty about 2 years 
after I use his product.  I will report on his product with both text and 
pictures.  I'll give it 2 years, and I will only use it on a parcel of my 
land, and keep another part as a "control" parcel.

By the way, I do some onsite composting.  I have a three pronged fork hoe 
thingy I got from Ace Hardware, and it works great to pull up scrub grasses 
jutting out of clay.  I pile up the scrub grasses, and make a layer cake 
with either horse manure or chicken manure.  It's interesting to watch the 
piles descend and descend as thermophilic composting happens.

I understand what Melendez is saying when he says, "hauling in compost is 
unsustainable," but I disagree.  There will always be some form of compost 
available, even if it's the rotting corpses of our fellow man.  Just make 
sure you have a sturdy wheelbarrow.

So you see, it's a self regulating system.

Rob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:53 AM
Subject: [Livingontheland] Not amused/ was another picture of humus 
growingin Arizona


> Nice you're amused; I'm not.  Tell us, how much time and money has she
> spent on her CSA over the last fifteen years, and how much has she 
> grossed?
> I'm curious how you would be able to know what she's spent, or verify 
> she's
> seen a dime of profit on that basis.  We should also ask *how much* food
> those 15 families are getting, since we're not told. You'll forgive me if 
> I
> don't get excited about it.
>
> You said below:
> "The hauling of soil to a  site or even scavenging for course organic
> debris off site to try and make  compost is contradictive to
> sustainability.  It simply does not work!   The only solution is to grow
> humus on site and not by using compost as the  food source.  I know it
> works because I've done it thousands of times on  many sites."
>
> But you said nothing would grow on her soil to begin with. Are you now
> claiming she "grew humus" onsite in that dead dirt - and then used that to
> build up good topsoil? Something from nothing? Did I miss anything?
>
> I hate to break this to you, Dr. Melendrez, but tons of organic waste of
> all kinds are available for free most anywhere in this country, and 
> failing
> to make good use of it for organic soil improvement cannot be sustainable.
> You claim that doesn't work. Are we on the same planet? What's wrong with
> composting what would otherwise go to waste? The ONLY solution is to "grow
> humus onsite"? Why?
>
> Sixty years ago, after a lifetime of experimentation and research, Sir
> Albert Howard urged returning all organic wastes to the soil to build and
> maintain fertility. He built humus-rich soil with the mycorrhyzal
> association in several countries, back in the early part of the century.
> And he didn't need to buy expensive biological products to do it. He
> literally ignited the modern organic movement. I don't believe that 
> doesn't
> work. Maybe you'd like to rethink your claims.
>
> We know that people throughout the world have used organic wastes to 
> enrich
> their growing areas and keep them fertile for centuries. Most notably
> perhaps, Asian farmers in F.H. King's Farmers of Forty Centuries. I expect
> the Rodales would have been surprised to learn hauling in compost 
> materials
> is not sustainable, as well as the millions who've been doing exactly 
> that.
>
>
> I might be interested in your "Soil Secrets" products if I were growing a
> golf course, but I'm not.
>
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 12/6/2006 at 12:49 AM Soilsecrets@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > I'm very amused by your comments and concerns as I can tell you that one
> > of
> > the objectives of what we do as scientists and consultants in such
> > projects
> > are  to minimize the expenses and not sink the project in Red Ink.  In
> > Kim's
> > case she is very much in the black and is one of the most prudent
> > individuals I
> > have ever met when it comes to spending money.  The project  covers 15,000
>
> > sq. ft. and is feeding 15 families with nutritious, organic  produce.
> > That's
> > pretty exciting considering the sites original  condition.
> >
> > On the other hand my whole mission is to focus on sustainable factors
> > minimizing energy efforts into such projects.  The hauling of soil to a
> > site or
> > even scavenging for course organic debris off site to try and make
> > compost is
> > contradictive to sustainability.  It simply does not work!   The only
> > solution
> > is to grow humus on site and not by using compost as the  food source.  I
> > know
> > it works because I've done it thousands of times on  many sites.
> >
> > Dr. Michael M. Melendrez
> >
> >
> > "Great ideas go through three phases, first they are ignored, then  they
> > are
> > ridiculed and than they are considered intuitively obvious to anyone  who
> > is
> > knowledgeable"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Livingontheland mailing list
> > Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
>
>
>
>
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