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labruscagrape - Re: [OFEX] Fw: P22 & intensive orcharding

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Subject: Ontario Fruit Explorers

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  • From: "Biz Storms" <biz.storms@sympatico.ca>
  • To: "'Ontario Fruit Explorers'" <labruscagrape@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [OFEX] Fw: P22 & intensive orcharding
  • Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:14:01 -0400

Hi everyone,

 

Just to clarify things, I’m going to ramble a bit about how P.22 came to arrive in our orchard.

 

As an overview, P.22 tends to grow in the neighbourhood of M.27, and, it can also be held to the 4 or 5 foot range. Yes, it does require staking, but I actually selected it as a substitute for M. 9, which often succumbs to those winters that occur every so often. It was that wild winter either two or three years ago that caused massive failure in the M.9 orchards all around Collingwood and down into our area. About 30 to 40 percent of the M.9’s perished, or were so damaged, that it made sense to replace them rather than try and nurse them back to health, yet have them fail the next winter.

 

Our choice for P.22 was made for three strategic reasons. One – it is supposedly winter hardy to zone 4; two – it is almost as precocious as M.9; and three – being super dwarfing, I could really plant them tight together, almost as a hedge, and be able to comfortably prune them from a standing position of five feet / six inches. I wanted the reduced height for manageability and precocious nature so I could have a faster verification that acquired scionwood was true to its identity, that I actually liked the apple, and that the variety could work in our location. ( This excludes Margie’s scionwood, of course! ) A fourth reason is that P.22, despite being super dwarfing, is known to still produce a full size apple, unlike other dwarfing rootstock that often deliver a smaller fruit.

 

It was for these reasons that P.22 was selected and brought in, and, it was Eric from Siloam who actually brought it in for me from out west. For the summer of 2005, scionwood from sources other than the Genebank, and a small handful of sources that are deemed to be reliable, were grafted onto both P.22 and M.26 so that if it turns out to be a different variety than intended, it is discovered a year, or two, earlier.

 

This mislabeling has now happened twice in our orchard. An Orlean’s Reinette that turned out to be a Dolgo Crab and a Court Pendu Plat, well, who knows what the variety is. So it definitely happens.

 

There are some downsides to P.22, that you also experience from other dwarfing and semi-dwarfing. These are reduced lifespan, and the need to stake since the wood is far more brittle. But when you weigh the desire for a precocious rootstock that is quite compact, versus all the attributes of M.26, M.111 and so one, it’s a fairly comfortable choice.

 

John, I would love to compare notes with you about your vertical axis system, as we are trying the same thing with five varieties on M.26, planted at a distance of 6 feet apart. Whether we continue to renew the leader every few years, is still undecided. The lowest trellis line has been placed about 30 inches above the ground, since that will be just slightly above the snow load, so we not encounter damage when the snow shifts. Anything from the knee down is removed, and shorter branches or fruiting spurs will be allowed to remain between the knee and the lowest trellis wire. The whips were planted last spring, and lower branches, where they have grown, have been tied to the trellis wire to begin training and induce fruiting. Where I am undecided is whether to not prune the leader, or try the bending or zig-zag method that is also used in some places. Perhaps we will experiment and do half of each variety in the two vastly different methods. Any thoughts – or experience with these techniques?

 

The goal from this intensive orcharding is to end up with a wall, or very tall hedge, of apples. If we could only fast-forward about five years to see how it comes together.

 

Since the natives are getting hungry, I must sign off and finish preparing dinner. Questions about tomatoes will have to follow later.

 

Cheers, Bizmark.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: labruscagrape-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:labruscagrape-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John Barbowski
Sent: 05 April 2006 14:20
To: labruscagrape@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [OFEX] Fw: P22

 

Hi T,

I am leaning towards the 'vertical axe' that requires staking to inhibit excessive leader movement. As such, I have stalked, and will be staking, all my trees: M26, Ott3, M9 (and soon to be one P22, to be picked up from Siloam in a week or two). 

From what I read, I understood that staking was needed for M26 and those below it on the vigor scale. (I'm sure that much depends on local growing conditions.) M26 could be okay without, but for M9, M27 and those below, staking was recommended. Can't say much from experience - just the literature, contacts and what my aging mind can remember.

Cheers!

jmb



 


From:  "Thomas Olenio" <tolenio@sentex.net>
Reply-To:  Ontario Fruit Explorers <labruscagrape@lists.ibiblio.org>
To:  "Ontario Fruit Explorers" <labruscagrape@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject:  Re: [OFEX] Fw: P22
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:53:16 -0400
>
>Hello,
>
>MM106 moderate vigour - 3.6-5.5m (12-18ft)
>M27 very dwarfing - 1.5-2m (5-7ft)
>M9 dwarfing - 2.4-3m (8-10ft)
>M26 semi dwarfing - 3-4.5m (10-15ft)
>M25 vigorous - 9-12m (30-40ft)
>
>Is it anything shorter than M9 that needs lifelong staking?
>
>Later,
>Tom




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