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  • From: John Berninger <john AT ncphotography.com>
  • To: "Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/" <internetworkers AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [internetworkers] The Local Gov't Fair Competition Act.
  • Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:45:44 -0400

Phillip Rhodes wrote:
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Scott Chilcote wrote:

I'd argue that it takes an organized, cooperative society to recognize and respect individual property rights.

And I'd agree, as long as that organized, cooperative society isn't
based on use of force to coerce people into participating. Voluntary
organization is absolutely fine, of course. I'm certainly not
proposing radical individualism, where nobody works with anybody else
in society for the "greater good." I'm just saying that "society" has
not authority to coerce individuals into doing things against their wills.
But that is exactly what you're proposing - without a means to enforce cooperation on members who disagree with the "common good" (the correctness of that definition to remain debatable for now), there *is* no society, and you're reduced to radical individualism. There will always be differences of opinion, and while these differences must be respected, they cannot be allowed to interfere with the compromises that are, IMHO, a ritical part of forming a "civilized society".

So why should the notion of individual property, which is granted by a civilized society, have more value and meaning than requiring that each individual who benefits from their society should make a contribution to its continued success?

I don't accept your assertion there, that private property is "granted"
by "civilized society." Having a civilized society certainly makes it
easier to maintain what is yours, and I've already said I'm in favor
of that. But ultimate responsibility for defending ones home and
possessions does, in my mind, fall to the individual.
The entire notion of private property requires a civilized society to create necessary preconditions for that concept to be honored. Which in turn requires acknowledgement that an individual's desires / opinions may at some point irrevocably conflict with the generally accepted notion of the "greater good", which in turn requires the establishment of some form of authority to 'discipline' the 'errant individual' - else we revert to a case of "What's mine is mine, and what's your is mine as soon as I get around to killing you and taking it."

And look at the so-called "civilized society" we have in place now.
This construct goes out and spends billions of "our" dollars fighting
an unjust war in Iraq, which has killed ~70,000 Iraqi civilians, and
does it in "our" name. I'm sorry, but if I want to disassociate myself
from that system, I think I should be able too. It doesn't represent me
or my beliefs. But that's the problem with a system based on coercion;
we can't choose to not be part of the system when it turns to evil (or
just goes against our beliefs in general).
I can't disagree with the opposition to the Iraq war here, but I do argue that you have the ability to disassociate yourself from the 'system' anytime you want - apply for citizenship in another country, or just move there as an ex-pat. Saying the system is based on coercion is also saying that you are being prevented from taking any of these steps at gunpoint, which is simply not true. By choosing not to take these steps to disassociate yourself from this system, you are acknowledging the limitations the system puts on you as a precondition of accepting the benefits the system grants you, and implicitly agreeing to these limitations.

Disclaimer: All the above is purely my personal opinion, and may not have anything more than a passing resemblance to reality as perceived by the reader.

--
John




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