Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

[Steven Champeon <schampeo AT hesketh.com>]

on Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:06:55AM -0500, Tanner Lovelace wrote:
> Steven Champeon said the following on 3/24/04 4:58 PM:
> 
> >None of this, however, mitigates what appears to be the primary issue:
> >that you don't like coercion regardless of whether it serves worthy
> >purposes, and you seem to still misunderstand that /all/ of these
> >services, SPEWS, RFCi, the SBL, CBL, etc. are /voluntarily/ used by ISPs
> >and others because they either agree with the listing criteria, or
> >because they're generally well-disposed towards them but misunderstand
> >their proper implementation (like anyone using SPEWS L2 to block/reject
> >mail). If I wanted to publish a DNSBL zone that only contained "IPs
> >associated with Tanner Lovelace", that's up to me, and it's up to
> >whoever uses it whether they trust my judgement in doing so. It's not
> >really coercion if the provided services are voluntarily adopted, is it?
> 
> Steve, that's bullshit and you know it.  Is it voluntary when ISPs
> are so scared of offending a listing service that they will disconnect
> paying customers who've done no wrong?  It's not called a "blocking"
> list for nothing.  These lists that try to hide behind the statement
> that it's all voluntary so no one should care are deluded in the first
> degree and if you actually believe that then you're not nearly as smart
> as I thought you were.

Tanner, nobody forces anybody to use a DNSBL. That's why they call them
"voluntary". Nobody forces /me/ to use them, that's for sure, except the
spammers and the companies that host them and the clueless Windows users
whose idea of virus protection is an echinacea tablet.

Your host is a spam support organization. Get used to it, and stop trying
to explain to me that a few bad apples occasionally squeak by. 

The reason for the listing services in the first place is that ISPs
/don't/ care about "offending" everyone on the Net who has to deal with
the fallout from the spammers. That's why I *voluntarily* use the SBL to
block all port 25 traffic from the netblocks they list, such as the
following on your host's network (there were only two upthread, now
there are *four*, though they have removed one, so three of them are
new, within the last week or so, and they're some of the most well-known
spammers around, so don't try to argue that Rackspace doesn't know who
Scott Richter is or who Atriks is):

 http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/sbl.lasso?query=SBL14861
 http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/sbl.lasso?query=SBL15151
 http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/sbl.lasso?query=SBL15102
 http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/sbl.lasso?query=SBL15098

But you're welcome to your opinion. Just don't bother sharing it with me,
okay? It's obvious you don't want to make progress here, and I'm tired
of trying to educate you or understand your twisted statements.

Cheers,
Steve

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