Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

internetworkers - Re: [internetworkers] Marriage and religion

internetworkers AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Steven Champeon <schampeo AT hesketh.com>
  • To: "'Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/'" <internetworkers AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [internetworkers] Marriage and religion
  • Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:12:11 -0500

on Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 05:38:42PM -0500, Shea Tisdale wrote:
> Steve Champeon wrote:
> > You replied to that with a long screed filled with fabricated quotes,
> > which I believe I debunked. What's left to argue here?
>
> There is the Steve we know and love taking swipes at people.
> So are you accusing me of fabricating quotes?

I just want to clarify this - I did not accuse you of fabricating
quotes. I suggested that your reply to me contained fabricated quotes.
If you cannot see the difference, I guess it can't be helped.

> I don't think you proved a single quote was fabricated, nor did you debunk
> any.

Not to your satisfaction, no. But that's hardly the same thing.

> You did go on and on about some web site you found where you thought
> my quotes might be from:

The quotes you sent were present on that page, in almost the exact same
order and wording, as those mentioned in your post. Feel free to compare
the two:

http://www.americanliberty.info/foundersbeliefs/

https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/internetworkers/2004-February/013793.html

Maybe the author used the same resource you did in compiling his essay.
Right down to the choice of ellipses in the quotes.

You:

"So in 1777 when the First Continental Congress called the Bible "the
great political textbook of the patriots" and appropriated funds to
import 20,000 Bibles for the people, they were thinking of some Diest
(sic) or atheist version I haven't heard of?"

AmericanLiberty.info:

"In 1777, while the colonies were struggling in the Revolutionary War,
the First Continental Congress called the Bible "the great political
textbook of the patriots" and appropriated funds to import 20,000
Bibles for the people."

You:

"And before they signed the Declaration of Independence when the
Continental Congress called for "a day of fasting and prayer within the
colonies, beseeching God to give guidance and direction as to whether
they should secede from England, which Eastern religion were they
thinking of?"

AmericanLiberty.info:

"By the way, did you know that the Continental Congress called for a
day of fasting and prayer within the colonies, beseeching God to give
guidance and direction as to whether they should secede from England
before the representatives to the Continental Congress signed the
Declaration of Independence?"

You:

"John Adams: In a letter to Jefferson wrote, "The general principles on
which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general
principles of Christianity."

AL:

"John Adams of Massachusetts, a lawyer and the second president, wrote
in a letter to Jefferson on June 28, 1813. He said, "The general
principles on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the
general principles of Christianity."

I love the fact that the ellipses are ". . .", not the ellipses entity
or three periods close together: "..."

You:

"George Washington said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world
without God and the Bible."

AL:

"George Washington, the father of our nation said, "It is impossible to
rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

You:

"Thomas Jefferson: "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of
government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the
heart."

AL:

"Thomas Jefferson...said, "The reason that Christianity is the best
friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that
changes the heart."

You:

"Benjamin Franklin: "He who shall introduce into the public affairs the
principles of a primitive Christianity, will change the face of the
world."

AL:

"Benjamin Franklin, considered a deist by many, said, "He who shall
introduce into the public affairs the principles of a primitive
Christianity, will change the face of the world."

et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum.

Maybe this wasn't the page. But the similarities are sufficient, I think,
to suggest that that essay and your message obviously share common roots.

Sadly, some of those roots at least seem to be faulty, according to many
of the sources I checked. Specifically, the Washington quote, which is at
best a loose paraphrase; you sent along the URL where it was originally
used, after I'd sent along the URL where the author explains that it is,
in fact, fabricated, that it is a paraphrase of something said in the
Farewell Address, and then goes on to explain that it doesn't matter, as
it was Blackstone's idea anyway.

Enough time wasted on this for today.

S

--
hesketh.com/inc. v: (919) 834-2552 f: (919) 834-2554 w: http://hesketh.com
Book publishing is second only to furniture delivery in slowness. -b. schneier




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page