Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

[David R.Matusiak <dave AT matusiak.org>]

Too awesome not to share!  Gotta love how Mr. Crisp describes the 
"dregs of the programming world."  Apparently, Raleigh is waaaaaay too 
counter-culture for this one...

Begin forwarded message:

> Date: Thu Jan 22, 2004  1:14:01  PM America/New_York
> Subject: RTP business whines for cheap (and pretty) labor
>
> Bosses are feeling oppressed. It's not only that labor isn't cheap
> enough (though Crisp whines plenty about that), it's also that
>
> Steve Crisp Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:21:41 -0500
> > Any ad I have placed has resulted in the dregs of the programming
> > world beating a path to my door. The ones looking for jobs are grossly
> > underqualified, undertrained, and mostly unemployable because they
> > look and act like freaks. I really don't care how good someone may be
> > if they are covered in tattoos, have spiked hair, and could not make
> > it though a metal detector at an airport because of all their
> > highly-visible piecings.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: this epitomizes the "tech labor shortage"
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:49:10 -0800
> From: Norm Matloff <matloff AT laura.cs.ucdavis.edu>
>
> I am posting the enclosed message with the permission of its author.
>
> For those of you readers who are not in the tech world, I could write
> a long response, disagreeing with his comments on the "need" to hire
> someone with certain very specific skill sets, but will just comment
> on his point on C++ and Java. C++ and Java basically are 90% the same,
> and the differences between them are such that a competent Java
> programmer can become proficient in the special features of C++ quite
> rapidly.
>
> As I said, I could go into much more detail on this, even quoting Bill
> Gates to show he feels the same way about it as I do. Hiring a
> programmer of good programming talent is far more important than
> his/her knowing what a C++ "friend class" is (yes, that the name of a
> certain C++ feature).
>
> But as I said, I won't elaborate on that, because Mr. Crisp finally
> gets to the salient issue midway in his mail:
>
>     4. We program primarily for Macintosh equipment. With Apple
>     dramatically ramping up their facilities it is almost impossible to
>     find an Apple- experienced programmer who will work for anything
>     less than $100,000 per year plus benefits -- a salary we can in no
>     way afford to pay.
>
>     On the other hand, there are many, many foreign nationals living
>     abroad who not only are more than capable of performing the tasks
>     we need them to, but will work for reasonable salaries of $40,000
>     to $60,000 per year.
>
> That is literally the bottom line. The so-called "labor shortage" is
> not a shortage of labor; it's a "shortage" of CHEAP labor.
>
> By the way, in reading this employer's tirade about NCSU teaching Java
> instead of C++, the reason some universities (though not mine)
> switched to Java from C++ is that in 1998 the industry lobbyists
> pushing Congress for a higher H-1B visa cap kept saying that there was
> a shortage of Java programmers. It's all phony, folks.
>
> Norm
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Steve Crisp <crisp AT pageplanetsoftware.com>
> From: Steve Crisp <crisp AT pageplanetsoftware.com>
> To: <nsmatloff AT ucdavis.edu>
> Subject: Exceptinos to your Washington Post comments
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:21:41 -0500
>
> I have to take exception to the comments attributed to you in the
> Washington Post today.
>
> I own a software development company. We are finding it impossible to
> hire qualified American programmers for several reasons.
>
> 1. Many of the programmers currently out of work in this region do not
> want to work. They accepted massive severance pay from their
> respective companies and are (have been) sitting doing nothing for
> almost two years now while living off their unemployment and
> severance. Many of them took the opportunity to start their own
> businesses and have no desire to work for someone else.
>
> 2. Of the programmers who are available to accept a position, they are
> generally far less qualified. They received no severance because they
> were not good enough to code in the first place when local
> corporations started to lay people off.
>
> 3. For the past seven years, current and recent graduates of the UNC
> system have been pumped full of Java rather than C++, the language we
> program in. Java is complete trash and that is what NCSU is promoting
> in the wake of their backroom deal with Sun several years ago. I don't
> care how capable someone is, if they don't have extensive experience
> in C++, we can't use them.
>
> 4. We program primarily for Macintosh equipment. With Apple
> dramatically ramping up their facilities it is almost impossible to
> find an Apple-experienced programmer who will work for anything less
> than $100,000 per year plus benefits -- a salary we can in no way
> afford to pay.
>
> On the other hand, there are many, many foreign nationals living
> abroad who not only are more than capable of performing the tasks we
> need them to, but will work for reasonable salaries of $40,000 to
> $60,000 per year. It appears that most of the rest of the world is
> still using C++ having not switched over to worthless Java and there
> are far more Apple-oriented programmers available.
>
> Yet I can not bring these folks over to work since the INS has no
> concept of the differences between programming languages. They presume
> that since there are so many unemployed programmers available that I
> should be able to find someone in the US to perform the task. And the
> Employment Security Commission is even worse. I can't even count the
> number of times I have placed a job search with the ESC for a C++
> programmer and they have sent me someone with extensive Cobol
> experience. They think that just because someone knows how to program
> that that is enough to fulfill the job requirements. The ESC is a
> complete waste of my time.
>
> Any ad I have placed has resulted in the dregs of the programming
> world beating a path to my door. The ones looking for jobs are grossly
> underqualified, undertrained, and mostly unemployable because they
> look and act like freaks. I really don't care how good someone may be
> if they are covered in tattoos, have spiked hair, and could not make
> it though a metal detector at an airport because of all their
> highly-visible piecings. For someone to do that to themselves
> indicates a complete lack of self worth or common sense and is not
> someone I want to be associated with.
>
> I should have the opportunity to hire anyone I wish from the
> world-wide pool of potential applicants and hire them at what they are
> willing to work for. Why should I be forced into an artificial hiring
> matrix?
>
> --
> Steve Crisp
> PagePlanet Software, Inc.
> 3300 Octavia Street
> Raleigh, NC  27606
> http://www.pageplanetsoftware.com
> 919-233-1770
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----