Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

["David R. Matusiak" <matusiak AT speakeasy.net>]

being perhaps the only internetworker with a degree in automotive technology, 
not to mention having worked as a professional porsche/audi mechanic, i would 
argue that i "know a bit about cars."

the thing that sticks out most in my mind about this discussion has been the 
*lack* of something. that something is a budget. honestly, there is NO REASON 
to 
discuss any cars' merit/value/reliability/otherwise without first determining 
what price range is within your reach.

you want the best car? the most reliable?? the safest???
do you want a car from a dealer with the highest CSI?? (Customer Service 
Index - 
what the service managers live and die by)

there is an easy answer. many easy answers, in fact.
porsche, bmw, audi, mercedes-benz, volvo.
[hint, hint - notice the strong german showing]

why are these "the best?"  because they are the most expensive (please don't 
waste my time by responding "what about bentley or xxxxxx??") and because 
their 
customer base is the most demanding. they pour the most into R&D, 
engineering, 
safety, and all the things that are important. since the lives of rich people 
are inherently more important than the rest of us, it is a logical conclusion 
that they should have the best protection.

now, if we want to bring the discussion a little closer to reality, then we 
must 
examine what the key factor is here. for most people, that factor is return 
on 
investment. "what can i get the best deal on that will suit my needs?"

if you want to be a selfish asshole, then you should purchase the biggest, 
heaviest, and least fuel-miserly thing you can find (ford excursion, 
anyone?). 
personally, each day of foot commuting makes me feel worse and worse about 
driving an automobile and contributing to the impending destruction of our 
world. based on those feelings, i seek to purchase only vehicles which have 
higher and higher fuel efficiency ratings. (just like you want to make more 
money with each job hop you take).

this is where hybrid electrics come in. toyota prius (i don't like toyota 
because they have NO personality, but they ARE good cars), honda civic 
hybrid, 
and the one that started it all - honda insight. once i am out of debt and 
ready 
to purchase another vehicle, this is the direction i will be heading in.

now, some of you may recall my past fervor for the subaru WRX (both sedan and 
wagon). it is truly an amazing car -- and the performance of it makes me 
salivate. however, while looking at them for the 100th time on monday, i 
finally 
saw the gas mileage figures on the sticker. 20MPG city and 26MPG hwy. i'm 
sorry 
to report, but this is just not acceptable. i love this car with all of my 
being, yet i cannot stand by and condone such wastefulness.

the technology exists to make more fuel efficient cars, and YES it is 
expensive. 
now. currently. present day. but i hope with more adoption, more development, 
and more pressure from consumers and the govt(HA!) that soon we will all be 
driving vehicles (of any body style) that consistently get btw 60 and 100 
MPG. 
this tale is not as fanciful as you may first imagine. if "Big Oil" would 
stop 
thwarting our green efforts, then this could occur much quicker. 

[random aside: did you know that when they were developing the lunar rovers 
for 
those space missions in the 1960's that something like $12 MILLION (thems is 
1960's dollars) per rover was spent developing and refining solar technology 
to 
power them?? and judging by the sorry state solar power development is in 
today, it seems as if all that effort was abandoned and orphaned soon 
thereafter. i have no idea who is to blame for that, but i would suspect 
those 
that saw solar energy as "unfair competition."]

anyway, to get back to Josep's questions...
i like honda, subaru, and audi. nissan is also good, but their company has 
been 
flirting with bankruptcy for about 5 years. that would worry me if i were to 
own 
a new one. if you have a little money, then the japanese cars are going to be 
the best option. if you have a lot of money, then the german cars are going 
to 
be what you want.

what don't i like? anything domestic. in fact, years ago i wanted to start 
printing bumperstickers that said "Domestic Vehicles Suck" to complement 
those 
idiotic "Mean People Suck" ones that losers put on their cars to appear 
sensitive. really, there is not one american car company that is worth 
spending 
your hard-earned money on. NOT ONE. i don't have the time or interest to list 
all of their flaws and shortcomings, but a short list would include:

- not meant to live past 80,000 miles (i.e. planned obsolescence)
- the absolute WORST ergonomics; to the point of being dangerous
- besides maybe a corvette, none of them handle the road properly (safely)

in my opinion, all american car brands are crap. they survive on the backs of 
morons. people who think they are "Buying American" or whatever. even worse, 
the 
folks who inherit these retarded ideals from their parents and "just buy 
fords 
'cause my daddy bought fords." this lack of independent thinking and/or 
actual 
research baffles me. if you are going to get stuck with 5 years of payments, 
don't you think you'd put a little thought into the whole thing? i guess that 
is 
asking too much. i would add korean car manufacturers to this blacklist. if 
you 
*have* to go korean, then buy a hyundai. otherwise, you have essentially just 
signed your death warrant (i used to work on Kias a bit, too - dangerous!).

anyway, the line btw "domestic" and "foreign" is a tenuous one. most hondas 
and 
toyotas (that WE can buy) are built in the USA. by good 'ol american folks in 
tennessee and ohio. all three of my hondas came from ohio (oops -- one came 
from canada). anyway, it is NOT about where it is built as much as it is 
about 
where it was designed/engineered.

either thru stupidity, laziness, or true incompetence the large american auto 
manufacturers have show again and again, year after year, car model after car 
model that they can only build sh*t. and idiots keep buyin' 'em, so why 
should 
we spend more on R&D -or- safety -or- even damn door locks that work right?? 
do 
yourself a favor and DON'T BUY A DOMESTIC AUTO. 

concerning auto dealers -- there is no hope. they are all scum of the earth. 
even your cousin Larry selling VWs in Buffalo. take the high school dropouts 
you 
knew, those who had little knowledge of anything (incl. automobile 
technology), 
and tell them "hey, if you want to eat this month, then you have to move 
these 
units." that is your auto dealer. never once have i come across a car 
salesman 
that so much as knew where the oil goes. all they care about is you signing 
the 
deal. and when you need to bring it in for service, they act like they never 
knew you. that is the way the business goes. [heh. and here begins the flow 
of 
"but my dealer loves me - he sent me a xxxxxx."  riiiiiiggghhhhtt.]

i think your interest in a VW TDi is commendable, but i wouldn't want to be 
the 
one trying to find a station that sells diesel on the side of the road in the 
middle of nowhere in the middle of the night. each year more and more of 
those 
consumer-grade diesel pumps disappear. if you can find a truckstop, then 
you'll 
be okay, but the unpopularity of diesel has limited its scope of distribution.

others suggestions:
miata - great! where do i put the luggage? (i *do* love the car, tho)
minicooper - also great! when do i get to drive one?!?! (built by BMW)
civic, integra, WRX - clearly the best cars of all time - no argument to the 
contrary is possible.

RE: hondas "not being worth it" and "blowing out head gaskets at ludicrous 
speed." hogwash. complete, unfettered hogwash. worth every penny and no more 
succeptable to failure than any other car. but much better engineered.

RE: VW - i think Mark is dead-on about them skimping on the "little stuff." 
and 
yes, the Beetle did have a major design flaw for replacing a headlamp (don't 
know if it is the L or R). notice we said Beetle and not cabrio. plus, would 
you 
really want to buy from a car manufacturer that spends its free time busting 
hippies in arizona for making hubcap clocks?

as you can ascertain, this whole process is relative. relative to how much 
money 
you have, relative to your politics and feelings on pollution, relative to 
your 
needs for ultra-performance, relative to how many children you have, etc. i 
wish 
our triangle transit was evolved enough so i could live without a car. and i 
wish people would wake up from the huge auto/SUV trance long enough to 
realize 
that they are screwing us all with their greed and ignorance. 

one piece of advice for EVERYONE: if you can find a decent mechanic, one who 
repeatedly produces good work, is accountable, relatively honest, and a 
straight 
shooter - then you need to stick with 'em. spoil them with lavish gifts on 
birthdays and holidays. bring them beer or their drug of choice as an 
offering.  
maybe name a child or pet after them. WHY? because there ain't many of them 
and 
the good ones are generally busy as hell.

lastly, Scott - i would love to know why you are "reprogramming the computer 
on 
your WRX all the time." based upon your answer, i may be demoting the WRX in 
my 
rankings. sorry for the verbose nature of this email, but...

when you ask an expert curmudgeon for their advice, sometimes you get the 
horns.
dave ;)
and Josep, i think it is the new BMW 7-series that runs on WinCE.
___  _ _____ . ....
m a h t o o z e e a c k  a t  s p e e k e e z e e  d o t  n e t
------ / / .........     . . .

On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Josep L. Guallar-Esteve wrote:

> Hi there!
> 
> I'm shopping for a car. And I'm asking for advice to my fellow 
> internetworkers.
> 
> What brands do you like? What are to be  avoided? Who are the best 
> dealers in the Triangle?
> 
> So far, I've seen and liked the Volkswagen Polo TDi (49 mpg on highway). 
> Yes, a modern turbo-diesel, 5-speed, compact car. With ABS, 6 airbags, 
> cd-player...Do you like it? Do you own it?
> 
> What other compact cars do you like? I know, SUVs and trucks are great, 
> but... I'd rather go with a compact car.
> 
> A no-no kind of car is a car running Microsoft WindowsCE, like those 
> pesky Mercedes. (it would be incompatible with my RedHat sticker).
> 
> C'mon. I know y'all drive cars. I know that you battle I-40 everyday. 
> Let me know what do you think. I wold specialy appreciate lifetime / 
> longtime Northcarolinians, for their experience with local car dealers 
> and knowledge of business in the Tarheels state (*).
> 
> (*) You know me, I like airplanes. And aviation was born *here*. I also 
> like soccer ("football"), and Carolina Courage are pretty good. I can 
> even find real "jamon" at Southern Seasons. It cannot get better than 
> this.
> 
> Salut,
> Josep
> -- 
> Josep Lluis Guallar-Esteve