OMG – how many times as it been
referred to as such previously. Sheesh.
It things like this, taking too much liberty in the interpretation or context,
that cause such arguments.
Chris Owens
chris.owens AT reality-v2.com
919.345.4339 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hayes
[mailto:mhayes AT mphiles.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:05 PM
To: InterNetWorkers
Subject: [internetworkers] Re:
Think Globally, Act Locally
It seems to me that you, Chris Owens, were the first
to give any sermons,
but I'm probably only saying that because I'm part of the "holy jihad
against microsoft."
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Owens" <internetworkers_box AT reality-v2-dev.com>
To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:55 AM
Subject: [internetworkers] RE: Think Globally, Act Locally
> *Whine* *Whine* *Whine* you little bitch. Take it off list and email
me
> directly with your childish insults.
>
> I merely commented on your obvious bigotry against all things MS, which
> is as childish and moronic as the email to which I am unfortunately
> granting some dignity by responding.
>
> I think that you are sorely overreacting to a simple retort to your
> ranting about MS, and shouldn't take things too personally. I meant
to
> include all those that rant and rave with jibberish regarding MS and
> attempt to impose some sense of importance to their holy jihad against
> of all things a corporation which they liken to be the antichrist.
>
> That said, I'll step down to your level for a moment:
>
> ----
> FUCK YOU! You whiny little bitch.
> ----
>
>
>
>
> Chris Owens
> chris.owens AT reality-v2.com
> 919.345.4339 mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David R. Matusiak [mailto:matusiak AT hotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:29 AM
> To: InterNetWorkers
> Subject: [internetworkers] Think Globally, Act Locally
>
> Chris Owen (heretofor referred to as "DickLick"),
>
> okay, you fucking prick -- now you've decided to associate me personally
> with some language which I find highly offensive; namely
"bigotry,"
> "zealot," and "pseudo-religious pontification." I find
this completely
> unnecessary, as I was responding to someone elses inquiry and was not
> addressing you in any way. You may not agree with what I have to say,
> but
> that gives you no right to attach harmful labels to my person.
>
> There is plenty of information that goes across this list with which I
> do
> not agree (i.e. the last 10-15 posts from your stupid ass), but I
> usually
> find it better to ignore this stuff than to attempt to throw gasoline on
> the
> fire.
>
> You have decided to reference my email and are attempting to discredit
> my
> professional opinion as nothing more than spreading
"misinformation."
> You
> attempt to dismiss me as a "zealot," claim that I am making
"threats,"
> and
> cast my words in the light of "bigotry." I consider these harsh
> accusations
> to be completely unfounded.
>
> Perhaps you were able to actually read my entire email and understand
> it.
> Perhaps not. In my email, I clearly noted that I couldn't care less what
> machines people use to accomplish their work. Additionally, I use all of
> these systems and more on a daily/weekly basis. I have done so for
> years. I
> think that lends more than a shred of credibility to my technological
> opinion.
>
> I have tried to understand what the fuck it is that you do over at
> <reality-v2.com>, but it looks like a load of gibberish designed to
> befuddle
> and confuse middle-management into using your crappy tools. I've also
> noted
> that some of your partners (specifically KimbaNet) seem to be pretty big
> M$
> proponents. I don't know if they expect you to kneel down and suck
> microsoft
> cock occasionally, but it is making you look like a big, foolish,
> single-minded douche bag.
>
> The reason for this email is not merely a retort to your practiced and
> tired
> words. I felt the need to alert you to the fact that I think you are
> useless. And I would hope that if we were ever to meet in person, that
> you
> would be fortunate enough to have several big friends around to stop me
> from
> ripping your fucking arms out of their sockets.
>
> good luck, DickLick.
> d.m.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Owens" <internetworkers_box AT reality-v2-dev.com>
> To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:58 PM
> Subject: [internetworkers] Re: Database inquiry
>
>
> > ARRRGH!!!
> >
> > Ok, I tried to be civil. Sheesh! What a load.
> >
> > I was with you initially, up until you reached the point of usual
> > bigotry that prevents zealots from being objective.
> >
> > Mary Beth, my recommendation to you is:
> >
> > A) Gather your requirements. There were some good questions and
> > starting points listed.
> >
> > B) Find out what platform your current hosting company is using.
> >
> > C) Determine what you're going to have to use after a good analysis
of
> > your needs, and the available products.
> >
> > Don't be swayed by "Boogey Man" threats, and misinformation
based upon
> > pseudo-religious pontification. You've got other things to take into
> > consideration, things like budget, learning curve, support and
> > maintenance costs, resource allocation and all the other factors that
> go
> > into a total ROI.
> >
> > Dependent on your needs, Access may be fine for you. I'm not a
big
> fan
> > of it myself, but it may suit your needs. More than likely, if
your
> > hosting provider supports ASP, they probably have a shared SQL Server
> > instance for customer usage.
> >
> > If speed isn't an issue, by all means go with Apache... You'll
find
> > that the other complaints relating to IIS and its security are
> > proportional since it has such a significantly higher install base...
> >
> > More than likely, if you're considering cost and wanting an easily
> > maintainable site, you'll go with ASP under IIS unless your hosting
> > provider doesn't offer that and you're stuck with them.
> >
> > Chris Owens
> > chris.owens AT reality-v2.com
> > 919.345.4339 mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David R. Matusiak [mailto:matusiak AT hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:23 PM
> > To: InterNetWorkers
> > Subject: [internetworkers] Re: Database inquiry
> >
> > Mary Beth...
> > ...what a big question you have...
> >
> >
> > before we worry about operating systems and "middleware"
and whatnot,
> we
> > must first establish what exactly is the intended purpose and scope
of
> > this
> > project. already we have established the idea that you want
> > dynamically-created web pages that pull info from a database. that is
> a
> > good
> > start. and you were wise to post your question to this list.
lots of
> > good,
> > free advice i'm seeing...
> > but that also leaves us with a host of questions:
> >
> > 1. will this be a public site? or just an intranet? (i.e. who will
> have
> > access?)
> > 2. who will be responsible for the maintenance of the site and
> database?
> > one
> > person? several?
> > 3. how much data-crunching flexibility will you need above and beyond
> > the
> > basic database functions (like add/delete/modify records)? a
lot?
> none
> > at
> > all?
> > 4. are you worried at all about info security? (i.e. is this
> > highly-sensitive data?)
> >
> > and these are just a few of the many questions someone might throw at
> > you,
> > so be prepared.
> >
> > from there, i would attest that there is little difference these days
> > (my
> > opinion, people) as to what platform you have sitting in front of
you.
> > personal preference determines more in this arena than anything else,
> it
> > seems to me. there is enough interactivity between protocols these
> days
> > (unless you are doing some mega-weird stuff) that you can easily talk
> > between disparate machine types.
> >
> > you can manage your data on a remote unix server (are you sure it
> isn't
> > linux? ;) as aptly with a mac laptop as you could with a huge 1.8Ghz
> PC
> > whiz-bang machine. most likely, you will just be connecting over a
> > protocol
> > such as FTP, telnet (please, for the love of job, don't use telnet),
> or
> > *SSH* (please, yada yada, please teach everyone in the world to
> > use/love/adore ssh). [ssh stands for "secure shell" and
provides a
> > fairly
> > decent layer of protection for data transmissions.]
> >
> > these protocols are available for every major platform type and
> > interaction
> > amongst them should be seamless. have i blathered enough? i think
not.
> >
> > on to your /actual/ question:
> >
> > what are we defining as "middleware" here? i'm assuming
that means
> some
> > way
> > of rendering the database info onto the screen. in this realm, there
> is
> > a
> > lot to choose from.
> >
> > <big open source plug>
> > if having a COMPLETELY FREE solution that is ABSOLUTELY FIRST RATE
> > sounds
> > interesting to you, then i highly recommend finding someone with
> > unix/linux
> > experience and directing them at the sacred triumvirate --
> > PHP/MYSQL/APACHE.
> > yes, indeed -- you may need to lay out some expensive training for
> this
> > person, or remain patient as they laze about the office reading a
> thick
> > O'Reilly book for a while, but the end result will be the equivalent
> of
> > Internet Nirvana. just kick back, watch the cows graze, and enjoy mad
> > uptime
> > on your site. (of course, i recommend keeping up with security
patches
> > ;)
> >
> > apache = the world's most deployed and best developed web SERVER.
> > mySQL = DATABASE that has been around a long time and had most of the
> > kinks
> > worked out
> > PHP = gods gift to dumbasses like me - allows you to create some
> kickin'
> > websites with little knowledge of (advanced) programming. i guess
this
> > would
> > be the MIDDLEWARE.
>
> >
> > for much more advanced database features, please look towards
> > PostGRESQL.
> > those folks are "nuts about databases."
> > </big open source plug>
> >
> > okay, enough of my incohesive ranting...
> >
> > there are also products from other vendors. another excellent
> middleware
> > solution is Cold Fusion. i don't know much about this product, but i
> do
> > know
> > that it can enable folks who don't "know everything
already" about web
> > site
> > building to put up some rather impressive stuff in a short timeframe.
> > not
> > such a big learning curve, but by the time you've passed this
learning
> > curve, you'll (perhaps) be longing for the advanced features of
> another
> > product.
> >
> > in terms of microsoft products, (you'll note i am listing them dead
> > last)
> > you should have a lot to choose from. hear me now and believe me
later
> > and
> > maybe talk about it some other time, Access IS NOT a database. yes, i
> > know
> > what the M$ website says, and yes, i know what their product
> literature
> > says. i'm not an idiot. but i do know to listen to folks who know a
> lot
> > more
> > than i do and for over 5 years, the across-the-board response on
> Access
> > is
> > that it is a veritable P.O.S.
> >
> > Access is more like an "advanced address book" for your
windows PC. i
> > would
> > rather swallow a windows cd-rom than administer an Access
"database."
> if
> > you
> > want a /real/ database product and you want it to have the M$ logo on
> > it,
> > then i recommend SQL. there is still the stigma of running a
microsoft
> > product, but this is one of the better products that they manufacture.
> > many
> > serious sites are run off of a SQL/IIS platform.
> >
> > ahhhh... IIS -- and this brings us to the *real* hinge of this
> > discussion.
> > IIS (or Internet Information Server) is the bane of all web existence
> --
> > yeah, even worse than netscape. it has so many security issues that i
> > couldn't even begin to explain. the problem with ASP and running any
> of
> > the
> > M$ products is that doing so makes you completely reliant on IIS --
> > "IIS,
> > you *are* the weakest link."
> >
> > i've seen IIS lockups more times than i'd like to remember. i've seen
> > more
> > IIS security exploits than i thought were possible with one singular
> > product. Code Red and all of its crap were the direct fault of IIS
> > servers
> > around the world. legend has spoken that even being in the same room
> as
> > an
> > IIS server when it is booting will bring a dark curse upon your
> > domicile.
> >
> > okay, let me wrap it up -- 'tis almost quitting time...
> >
> > first, you need a detailed rundown of the whos / whats / whys of your
> > database needs. (looks like Mike Thomas' email nailed that one good).
> >
> > next, you need to decide where to spend your $$$ -- training and
> > (hopefully)
> > holding onto a decent employee -or- buying a lot of software
licenses.
> >
> > then, you can determine which solution works best for your budget,
> > needs,
> > capabilities, etc.
> >
> > lastly, you can worry about what OS your provider uses and what your
> > desktop
> > is. ;)
> >
> > hope this was helpful and not too sanctimonious.
> > dave m.
> > p.s. sounds like you've got a new employee on the way, but if you are
> in
> > need of any more, please email this list or me directly. i certainly
> > know a
> > lot of top-notch folks who could use the work.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marybeth Lackey" <mlackey AT raleighcvb.org>
> > To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:20 PM
> > Subject: [internetworkers] Database inquiry
> >
> >
> > > My office would like to have a database-driven site. We're in
the
> > > preliminary planning stages and need a few questions answered,
if
> > anyone
> > has
> > > the expertise and the time to explain it to me so I can explain
it
> to
> > > them!!!
> > >
> > > 1. What exactly do we need? We have a database set up right now
that
> > is
> > part
> > > of a proprietary program for Convention and Visitors Bureaus,
but
> > could be
> > > mapped into Access. The Internet person (me right now;
someone new
> in
> > a
> > > month and a half) has a Mac. Our site is hosted by a hosting
company
> > and I
> > > BELIEVE their servers are Unix, although that would have to be
> > confirmed.
> > >
> > > I know we need some sort of middleware, but is it better to
stick
> with
> > MS
> > > and use the Access database along with some ASP, or should we
start
> > from
> > > ground zero? Should my job as the sole Internet person
have a Mac
> or
> > a
> > PC,
> > > or will that matter? I'm pretty sure the middleware goes
on the
> > server,
> > so
> > > would a hosting company provide that, or would we have to move
our
> > server
> > > in-house? And if they have Unix servers, does that
eliminate using
> > the
> > > whole Access/ASP option if they continue to host our site?
> > >
> > > I think that should get us started on our discussion. Thanks in
> > advance
> > for
> > > any help you can offer.
> > > ---
> > > Mary Beth Lackey
> > > Internet Manager
> > > Greater Raleigh Convention and Visitors Bureau
> > > http://www.raleighcvb.org
>
> ---
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