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- From: "Michael Hayes" <mhayes AT mphiles.com>
- To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
- Subject: Re: Think Globally, Act Locally
- Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:04:34 -0400
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It seems to me
that you, Chris Owens, were the first to give any sermons,
but I'm probably only saying that because I'm part of the "holy jihad against microsoft." Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Owens" <internetworkers_box AT reality-v2-dev.com> To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: [internetworkers] RE: Think Globally, Act Locally > *Whine* *Whine* *Whine* you little bitch. Take it off list and email me > directly with your childish insults. > > I merely commented on your obvious bigotry against all things MS, which > is as childish and moronic as the email to which I am unfortunately > granting some dignity by responding. > > I think that you are sorely overreacting to a simple retort to your > ranting about MS, and shouldn't take things too personally. I meant to > include all those that rant and rave with jibberish regarding MS and > attempt to impose some sense of importance to their holy jihad against > of all things a corporation which they liken to be the antichrist. > > That said, I'll step down to your level for a moment: > > ---- > FUCK YOU! You whiny little bitch. > ---- > > > > > Chris Owens > chris.owens AT reality-v2.com > 919.345.4339 mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: David R. Matusiak [mailto:matusiak AT hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:29 AM > To: InterNetWorkers > Subject: [internetworkers] Think Globally, Act Locally > > Chris Owen (heretofor referred to as "DickLick"), > > okay, you fucking prick -- now you've decided to associate me personally > with some language which I find highly offensive; namely "bigotry," > "zealot," and "pseudo-religious pontification." I find this completely > unnecessary, as I was responding to someone elses inquiry and was not > addressing you in any way. You may not agree with what I have to say, > but > that gives you no right to attach harmful labels to my person. > > There is plenty of information that goes across this list with which I > do > not agree (i.e. the last 10-15 posts from your stupid ass), but I > usually > find it better to ignore this stuff than to attempt to throw gasoline on > the > fire. > > You have decided to reference my email and are attempting to discredit > my > professional opinion as nothing more than spreading "misinformation." > You > attempt to dismiss me as a "zealot," claim that I am making "threats," > and > cast my words in the light of "bigotry." I consider these harsh > accusations > to be completely unfounded. > > Perhaps you were able to actually read my entire email and understand > it. > Perhaps not. In my email, I clearly noted that I couldn't care less what > machines people use to accomplish their work. Additionally, I use all of > these systems and more on a daily/weekly basis. I have done so for > years. I > think that lends more than a shred of credibility to my technological > opinion. > > I have tried to understand what the fuck it is that you do over at > <reality-v2.com>, but it looks like a load of gibberish designed to > befuddle > and confuse middle-management into using your crappy tools. I've also > noted > that some of your partners (specifically KimbaNet) seem to be pretty big > M$ > proponents. I don't know if they expect you to kneel down and suck > microsoft > cock occasionally, but it is making you look like a big, foolish, > single-minded douche bag. > > The reason for this email is not merely a retort to your practiced and > tired > words. I felt the need to alert you to the fact that I think you are > useless. And I would hope that if we were ever to meet in person, that > you > would be fortunate enough to have several big friends around to stop me > from > ripping your fucking arms out of their sockets. > > good luck, DickLick. > d.m. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Owens" <internetworkers_box AT reality-v2-dev.com> > To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:58 PM > Subject: [internetworkers] Re: Database inquiry > > > > ARRRGH!!! > > > > Ok, I tried to be civil. Sheesh! What a load. > > > > I was with you initially, up until you reached the point of usual > > bigotry that prevents zealots from being objective. > > > > Mary Beth, my recommendation to you is: > > > > A) Gather your requirements. There were some good questions and > > starting points listed. > > > > B) Find out what platform your current hosting company is using. > > > > C) Determine what you're going to have to use after a good analysis of > > your needs, and the available products. > > > > Don't be swayed by "Boogey Man" threats, and misinformation based upon > > pseudo-religious pontification. You've got other things to take into > > consideration, things like budget, learning curve, support and > > maintenance costs, resource allocation and all the other factors that > go > > into a total ROI. > > > > Dependent on your needs, Access may be fine for you. I'm not a big > fan > > of it myself, but it may suit your needs. More than likely, if your > > hosting provider supports ASP, they probably have a shared SQL Server > > instance for customer usage. > > > > If speed isn't an issue, by all means go with Apache... You'll find > > that the other complaints relating to IIS and its security are > > proportional since it has such a significantly higher install base... > > > > More than likely, if you're considering cost and wanting an easily > > maintainable site, you'll go with ASP under IIS unless your hosting > > provider doesn't offer that and you're stuck with them. > > > > Chris Owens > > chris.owens AT reality-v2.com > > 919.345.4339 mobile > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David R. Matusiak [mailto:matusiak AT hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:23 PM > > To: InterNetWorkers > > Subject: [internetworkers] Re: Database inquiry > > > > Mary Beth... > > ...what a big question you have... > > > > > > before we worry about operating systems and "middleware" and whatnot, > we > > must first establish what exactly is the intended purpose and scope of > > this > > project. already we have established the idea that you want > > dynamically-created web pages that pull info from a database. that is > a > > good > > start. and you were wise to post your question to this list. lots of > > good, > > free advice i'm seeing... > > but that also leaves us with a host of questions: > > > > 1. will this be a public site? or just an intranet? (i.e. who will > have > > access?) > > 2. who will be responsible for the maintenance of the site and > database? > > one > > person? several? > > 3. how much data-crunching flexibility will you need above and beyond > > the > > basic database functions (like add/delete/modify records)? a lot? > none > > at > > all? > > 4. are you worried at all about info security? (i.e. is this > > highly-sensitive data?) > > > > and these are just a few of the many questions someone might throw at > > you, > > so be prepared. > > > > from there, i would attest that there is little difference these days > > (my > > opinion, people) as to what platform you have sitting in front of you. > > personal preference determines more in this arena than anything else, > it > > seems to me. there is enough interactivity between protocols these > days > > (unless you are doing some mega-weird stuff) that you can easily talk > > between disparate machine types. > > > > you can manage your data on a remote unix server (are you sure it > isn't > > linux? ;) as aptly with a mac laptop as you could with a huge 1.8Ghz > PC > > whiz-bang machine. most likely, you will just be connecting over a > > protocol > > such as FTP, telnet (please, for the love of job, don't use telnet), > or > > *SSH* (please, yada yada, please teach everyone in the world to > > use/love/adore ssh). [ssh stands for "secure shell" and provides a > > fairly > > decent layer of protection for data transmissions.] > > > > these protocols are available for every major platform type and > > interaction > > amongst them should be seamless. have i blathered enough? i think not. > > > > on to your /actual/ question: > > > > what are we defining as "middleware" here? i'm assuming that means > some > > way > > of rendering the database info onto the screen. in this realm, there > is > > a > > lot to choose from. > > > > <big open source plug> > > if having a COMPLETELY FREE solution that is ABSOLUTELY FIRST RATE > > sounds > > interesting to you, then i highly recommend finding someone with > > unix/linux > > experience and directing them at the sacred triumvirate -- > > PHP/MYSQL/APACHE. > > yes, indeed -- you may need to lay out some expensive training for > this > > person, or remain patient as they laze about the office reading a > thick > > O'Reilly book for a while, but the end result will be the equivalent > of > > Internet Nirvana. just kick back, watch the cows graze, and enjoy mad > > uptime > > on your site. (of course, i recommend keeping up with security patches > > ;) > > > > apache = the world's most deployed and best developed web SERVER. > > mySQL = DATABASE that has been around a long time and had most of the > > kinks > > worked out > > PHP = gods gift to dumbasses like me - allows you to create some > kickin' > > websites with little knowledge of (advanced) programming. i guess this > > would > > be the MIDDLEWARE. > > > > > for much more advanced database features, please look towards > > PostGRESQL. > > those folks are "nuts about databases." > > </big open source plug> > > > > okay, enough of my incohesive ranting... > > > > there are also products from other vendors. another excellent > middleware > > solution is Cold Fusion. i don't know much about this product, but i > do > > know > > that it can enable folks who don't "know everything already" about web > > site > > building to put up some rather impressive stuff in a short timeframe. > > not > > such a big learning curve, but by the time you've passed this learning > > curve, you'll (perhaps) be longing for the advanced features of > another > > product. > > > > in terms of microsoft products, (you'll note i am listing them dead > > last) > > you should have a lot to choose from. hear me now and believe me later > > and > > maybe talk about it some other time, Access IS NOT a database. yes, i > > know > > what the M$ website says, and yes, i know what their product > literature > > says. i'm not an idiot. but i do know to listen to folks who know a > lot > > more > > than i do and for over 5 years, the across-the-board response on > Access > > is > > that it is a veritable P.O.S. > > > > Access is more like an "advanced address book" for your windows PC. i > > would > > rather swallow a windows cd-rom than administer an Access "database." > if > > you > > want a /real/ database product and you want it to have the M$ logo on > > it, > > then i recommend SQL. there is still the stigma of running a microsoft > > product, but this is one of the better products that they manufacture. > > many > > serious sites are run off of a SQL/IIS platform. > > > > ahhhh... IIS -- and this brings us to the *real* hinge of this > > discussion. > > IIS (or Internet Information Server) is the bane of all web existence > -- > > yeah, even worse than netscape. it has so many security issues that i > > couldn't even begin to explain. the problem with ASP and running any > of > > the > > M$ products is that doing so makes you completely reliant on IIS -- > > "IIS, > > you *are* the weakest link." > > > > i've seen IIS lockups more times than i'd like to remember. i've seen > > more > > IIS security exploits than i thought were possible with one singular > > product. Code Red and all of its crap were the direct fault of IIS > > servers > > around the world. legend has spoken that even being in the same room > as > > an > > IIS server when it is booting will bring a dark curse upon your > > domicile. > > > > okay, let me wrap it up -- 'tis almost quitting time... > > > > first, you need a detailed rundown of the whos / whats / whys of your > > database needs. (looks like Mike Thomas' email nailed that one good). > > > > next, you need to decide where to spend your $$$ -- training and > > (hopefully) > > holding onto a decent employee -or- buying a lot of software licenses. > > > > then, you can determine which solution works best for your budget, > > needs, > > capabilities, etc. > > > > lastly, you can worry about what OS your provider uses and what your > > desktop > > is. ;) > > > > hope this was helpful and not too sanctimonious. > > dave m. > > p.s. sounds like you've got a new employee on the way, but if you are > in > > need of any more, please email this list or me directly. i certainly > > know a > > lot of top-notch folks who could use the work. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marybeth Lackey" <mlackey AT raleighcvb.org> > > To: "InterNetWorkers" <internetworkers AT franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:20 PM > > Subject: [internetworkers] Database inquiry > > > > > > > My office would like to have a database-driven site. We're in the > > > preliminary planning stages and need a few questions answered, if > > anyone > > has > > > the expertise and the time to explain it to me so I can explain it > to > > > them!!! > > > > > > 1. What exactly do we need? We have a database set up right now that > > is > > part > > > of a proprietary program for Convention and Visitors Bureaus, but > > could be > > > mapped into Access. The Internet person (me right now; someone new > in > > a > > > month and a half) has a Mac. Our site is hosted by a hosting company > > and I > > > BELIEVE their servers are Unix, although that would have to be > > confirmed. > > > > > > I know we need some sort of middleware, but is it better to stick > with > > MS > > > and use the Access database along with some ASP, or should we start > > from > > > ground zero? Should my job as the sole Internet person have a Mac > or > > a > > PC, > > > or will that matter? I'm pretty sure the middleware goes on the > > server, > > so > > > would a hosting company provide that, or would we have to move our > > server > > > in-house? And if they have Unix servers, does that eliminate using > > the > > > whole Access/ASP option if they continue to host our site? > > > > > > I think that should get us started on our discussion. Thanks in > > advance > > for > > > any help you can offer. > > > --- > > > Mary Beth Lackey > > > Internet Manager > > > Greater Raleigh Convention and Visitors Bureau > > > http://www.raleighcvb.org > > --- > Come and play at the InterNetWorkers Web site! > http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/ > You are currently subscribed to internetworkers as: > internetworkers_box AT reality-v2-dev.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > $subst('Email.Unsub') > > > --- > Come and play at the InterNetWorkers Web site! http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/ > You are currently subscribed to internetworkers as: mhayes AT mphiles.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst('Email.Unsub') |
-
Think Globally, Act Locally,
David R. Matusiak, 09/13/2001
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Chris Owens, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Gina Norman, 09/13/2001
- Re: Think Globally, Act Locally, Michael Hayes, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Chris Owens, 09/13/2001
- Re: Think Globally, Act Locally, Chris Owens, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Chris Owens, 09/13/2001
- Re: Think Globally, Act Locally, Thomas Beckett, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Medical Illustration, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Chris Owens, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Medical Illustration, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Chris Owens, 09/13/2001
- RE: Think Globally, Act Locally, Thomas Beckett, 09/13/2001
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