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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

good to know about manure tea pathogens....  compost first it is.
 
acorns,,,,, ahaaaaa,,,,,, that explains why the neighbor's pig in FL used to 
escape his home and come to our home,,,,, we had tons and tons of acorns on 
that property, as well as almonds... and here i thought it was just coming 
over to roll in the horse manure 
 
it is possible to keep adults thru the summer heat if there is a shady area?  
and just raise the piglets for food?
 


--- On Sat, 1/17/09, Lynda <lurine AT com-pair.net> wrote:

From: Lynda <lurine AT com-pair.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] pigs
To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:29 PM

They LOVE a real stiff bristled brush for a good back scratching!

I wouldn't count on them coming back.  They are pretty smart and can be 
trained but they also have a mind of their own.  If they decide they are 
going south and you want them to go north, figure they'll go south, period!

We raise them up here in the late fall or early spring because of the heat 
of summer.  Late fall works real well for us because of the acorns.  They 
LOVE acorns.


Just a note about the manure tea.  In China they feed farm raised fish 
manure teas (they call it fermented manure) and they has been quite a bit of 
trouble with various diseases in the fish imported from those farms because 
of parasites and various other pathogens.  So, I'd compost it first.

Lynda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leslie" <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>


Thanks,

Permanent mud hole - not likely in the desert.
Hmmmm, rooting up things, might be good idea - for large areas I want to 
"weed"... LOL.
Definitely won't forget what they are raised for.
I don't think I could raise them in a trailer - seems mean.

One of my brother's comical statements when he heard me discussing various 
locations w/dad - he wants to put them some 1200 feet away from the closest 
water line,,,, when I pointed out the obvious issue with that,,,, he says 
not to worry about them needing water, they will drink when it rains... Ya 
right, like that happens a lot here in the desert.... not even once a month 
most of the year.... Course he didn't have enough rain where he had them 
either, so needless to say, his pigs did not exactly thrive, although he did 
shower them with love, they were severely malnourished.

Speaking of shower, do they like being "scrubbed" when getting a
bath, or 
just getting wet and then rolling in the dirt?

I was also thinking of using the pig manure (mixed with other manure) to 
make "manure tea"... have you tried that for the veggies?

If hand tamed, can you turn them loose in a large area and then convince 
them to come back to a penned area easily, like you can do with chickens, 
horses, etc?

One of my neighbors in FL had the most gigantic sow I ever saw.... they 
built her a grassy pen area that was surrounded by a concrete wall about 3 
feet high or so - I figure there was a reason for having such a strong fence 
for her............. LOL. Not to mention that wild pig who kept trying to 
bust the walls down in the barn.


--- On Sat, 1/17/09, EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net> wrote:

From: EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] pigs
To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 8:31 PM


Leslie wrote:

>
> At some point, I want to raise some pigs, and I'm wondering if there
>  is anything in particular I should think about for site selection.
> And, is the pig area super smelly, if so how far away from my mom's
> house in particular should I be planning,,,, I think she wants to
> forget some of her farming roots.... i.e. the smell of pigs....
>

Just like everything else, there are a dozen ways or more to raise pigs.
  In these parts, people pen them up with hog panel or run low electric
fencing, or raise them on a wooden deck. If you go with the last option,
a small wooden floored trailer works well, and you can take them right
to the processor if that if what you decide to do, no loading antics.
Some people have pastured pigs, just here, most folks keep them penned.
   We raise a few pigs every other year or so.  You want to raise two or
more at a time, because they will eat competitively and gain weight
faster than a single pig in a pen.  Pigs are smart, strong, and like
human companionship.  They can quickly endear themselves to you, so we
always name them after food...Moo Shoo, Bacon, Jerk, etc. so you don't
forget why you have them.  We raise pigs in a 16x16 pen made of hog
panels bolted into a square, and I just moved the pen around.  One of my
neighbors raises his on a landscape trailer, another uses electric high
tensile.  Pigs root and dig a lot...they are natures tillers and will
till up any area you put them in.  If you don't want them to dig, you
have to ring their noses.  The deck method prevents digging, the
electric fencing method almost mandates ringing noses.  If you move pigs
around, they really don't smell that much.  If you go with the
trailer/deck method, you just wash off the boards/floor.  Personally, I
think pigs are healthier if they are on dirt and can root up to their
hearts content.  They eat grubs and roots and grass and weeds and stuff
and I believe it makes them healthier, and of course, they really enjoy
it.  I figure if you gotta live in a pen, you should have some fun.  I
also provide bowling balls and other large toys(like a tire) to push
around for entertainment and amusement.  They like to dig, but they also
like to be clean and appreciate a good shower with the hose.  They
absolutely need clean water to drink.
We also find that the smell is less of an issue if we raise them in the
winter.  I have a large plastic water tank in a metal that is opened up
like a huge doghouse.  We toss a bale of hay in there and the pigs
nestle into the hay.  The tank/pighouse gets rolled around as the pen is
moved.  As for site selection, anything you might use as a future
garden, a nice level area, or if you don't plan on moving the pen,
choose a spot where you want a pond.  If you don't move pigs around
their poop their feet will create a mud that will compact into a nice
pond.  this is the way the old timers used to seal ponds-they would run
pigs where they wanted a pond.  So, if you go with the movable pen
method, you really do have the move the pen else you will create a
permanent mudhole.
Whatever you decide to do, make sure the fencing is good and sturdy.
  There are several people on the list who have also raised pigs, so just
ask away..
Too bad Granddad isn't here to post his classic "I hate chasing
pigs"
story.  Loved that one!

Bev



-- 
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will
not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius
will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the
world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone
are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve
the problems of the human race"

~ Calvin Coolidge
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>From cayadopi AT yahoo.com  Sun Jan 18 08:49:20 2009
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I've slaughtered a lot of animals for food, and didn't even give the ones 
headed for slaughter names for that reason.  I've had a couple of roosters 
and hens I really liked, but even those eventually wound up in the stew pot.
 
We definitely don't have much in the way of table scraps - not enough for 
pigs.  The feed cost is definitely a factor to consider. 
 
My grandmother used to save the table scraps for them, and they loved them, 
but it was just a small desert added to the feed slop they were fed.  I 
definitely like the idea of letting them root up the garden after season.
 
I figure that this first year is part of an experiment to see if I can 
convince my black thumb to turn green,,, and if so,,,,,,, before I add on 
animals pig or goat size, that I have to make sure I can grow a good portion 
of their food for them as opposed to the feed store.
 
Do they like raw onions?  I found out yesterday that one of the local packing 
houses has an "onion dumping field".... where they discard any onions that 
have bruises, are double onions, etc.  stuff that doesn't pass packing 
standards.  They let the locals gather all they want for free.  I know 
bruised onions can be sliced up and frozen, just cut out the bruised part.  
 
 
 
 


--- On Sun, 1/18/09, Robert Walton <waltonrp AT gmail.com> wrote:

From: Robert Walton <waltonrp AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] pigs
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 7:48 AM

One strand of electric at nose level will do it. Two might be better.
You have to train them to it when they are young. If they aren't fed
well, I assume it would be less effective, that's the same for
anything.

Not so small an area that they can't relax without thinking about the
fence wire. Maybe 40 x 40. As big as you want it. The only reason I'd
do it small is so that you direct the rooting to that area. Otherwise,
they just root where they feel like it.

Lynda brought up a good point. Think of how you are going to finish
them. Having growing pigs around during the garden season works for
me. That way they can eat extra produce/fruit. At the end of the
season, they can clean up. Acorns are a nice natural, free way to
finish them here. Cleaning up a field of corn is a favorite, also.
I've planted Chestnut and Pecan trees. Hopefully in a few years, the
extras from those will add to my hog finishing feed.

I'm thinking about growing a summer cover crop in a new field this
year by broadcasting soy, peas, mangels, peanuts and what ever else I
find to add to the mix. Then pen the hogs in it in the fall.

I've had to buy hog feed this year in addition to the free acorns.
More you have to buy, the more expensive it gets. Also, don't be
fooled my people saying you can feed a hog of table scraps. Unless you
have a lot of scraps, you need to add to it once they get big and you
are fattening it.

If you are one to get attached to your animals, watch it. Pigs make
better pets than a lot of dogs. They are smart, will follow you
around, roll over, like their belly scratched. It's easy to get
attached.

Rob - Va
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>From bobford79 AT yahoo.com  Sun Jan 18 08:49:54 2009
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Subject: [Homestead] New 'bee', bee-keeping problems?
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I don't know how many on the list actually keep bees; but we all depend on 
them.  Evidently this program (which just abruptly stopped) has been on-going 
for four years...............

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Beekeepers fear sting of imported Australian hives

By GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press Writer 

 – Sat Jan 17, 8:44 pm ET 

AP – Australian bees are shown on a honeycomb on Thursday, Jan. 15, 2009 in 
Atwater, Calif. Beekeepers who … ATWATER, Calif. – Beekeepers who are 
battling a mysterious ailment that led to the disappearance of millions of 
honeybees now fear the sting of imported Australian bees that they worry 
could outcompete their hives and might carry a deadly parasite unseen in the 
United States.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture has allowed shipments of Australian bees 
to resume despite concerns by some of its own scientists.

Australia had been airfreighting the insects across the Pacific for four 
years to replace hives devastated by the perplexing colony collapse disorder. 
But six weeks ago the Australian government abruptly stopped the shipments, 
saying it could no longer be certain the country was free of a smaller, 
aggressive bee that has infested areas near the Great Barrier Reef, U.S. 
officials said.

Early this month, the USDA decided to permit the bee shipments to resume with 
some precautions, and the first planeloads arrived in San Francisco last 
Monday.

Beekeeper Ken Haff of Mandan, N.D., says he fears the foreign hives could 
kill off his apiary.

"We've got enough problems with our own bee diseases that we don't know how 
to treat, and they open the border to a whole new species that could carry 
God knows what," said Haff, a vice president of the American Honey Producers 
Association. "That's a total slap in the face for us."

Shad Sullivan, a bee wholesaler in California's Central Valley, said that in 
the four years he has imported bees from Australia, he has found that the 
hearty imports outlive domestic bees that have been weakened by pesticides, 
pests and diseases.

"If the bees were truly carrying something that bad, I would have been the 
first to get it," Sullivan said as a thick cloud of the buzzing insects flew 
overhead. "I just haven't seen those kinds of devastation."

Domestic honeybees feed on most flowering plants, and are vital pollinators 
for many food crops.

However, domestic bee stocks have been waning since 2004, when scientists 
first got reports of the puzzling illness that has claimed up to 90 percent 
of commercial hives and has been labeled colony collapse disorder.

That's also the year the USDA allowed imports of Australian hives, and 
scientists have been investigating whether Australia was a source of a virus 
tied to the bee die-off.

Entomologists also fear that the aggressive bee species found near 
Australia's Great Barrier Reef could carry a deadly mite, said Jeff Pettis, 
the USDA's top bee scientist.

"This could be a threat worldwide, because if those bees are moving around 
the chances are this mite would move with it," Pettis said. "We just don't 
need another species causing problems."

The Australian government has adopted emergency controls to quarantine and 
destroy the aggressive bees and has never detected that mite, according to 
materials provided by Chelsey Martin, counselor for public affairs at the 
Australian Embassy in Washington.

U.S. agriculture officials say they also are taking precautions.

Agricultural officials started sampling Australian bees last week after they 
were released in the Central Valley.

"Bees from Australia make great sense," said Wayne Wehling, a senior 
entomologist in the USDA's permit unit. "But we certainly don't want to bring 
any economic impacts onto our honeybees that we don't already have or 
introduce any new pests or disease."

Government officials said they do not know how many Australian bees have been 
imported, but hive importer Sullivan estimates that he has sold 110,000 hives 
since 2005. 

On Wednesday, a USDA inspector in a protective suit collected samples of bees 
at Sullivan's operation. 

"Hopefully this will ease the minds of people who have their own hives here," 
said inspector John Iniguez. "We're trusting Australia that they're clean. 
Now we just want to confirm that."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090118/ap_on_re_us/disappearing_bees