Homestead mailing list

[bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

One set of credentialed geologists says one thing and another set of 
credentilaed geologists says another.  It really does not matter.  As long as 
oil is cheap and plentiful, we can go merrily along our way, and let the 
hysterical followers of the peak oil gurus or whatever is the new fad theory 
, next week, keep preaching that the sky is falling.  One day they might be 
right; and the sky might fall.  It could occur tomorrow or in 20, 000 years. 
until that day, deal with them like the you would an itinerant street-corner 
preacher --smile, give them a dollar, and go on your way..........

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Lynda <lurine AT com-pair.net> wrote:

> From: Lynda <lurine AT com-pair.net>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] The Myth of Fossil Fuels
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 1:55 PM
> The abiotic oil theory goes back to the early 50s by Russian
> and Ukranian 
> scientists.  The peak oil theory goes back to 1956.  Unless
> one is using 
> Bush's new math, the early 50s came before the
> "mid" 50s of which 1956 is 
> defined.
> 
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
> 
> 
> > When I post something like this, it is intended to
> expand people's
> > thinking.  It may or may not represent my own
> thinking.  You have
> > assigned belief and intent to my post that I did not
> intend.
> >
> > Just because I believe that there is such a thing as
> abiotic oil doesn't
> > mean that I don't believe in Peak oil or that I
> believe in deep gas
> > theory.  Basically, I  while I still believe that some
> 'fossil fuels'
> > are created from plants and animals, I also believe
> that oil and
> > hydrocarbon fuels can form abiotically.
> >
> > Just because I believe it can happen that way
> shouldn't imply that I
> > believe we should go drilling deep wells or that we
> would find anything
> > if we did go deeper.   Perhaps there is no
> 'reservoir' just a process, I
> > don't know...I don't think anybody really
> knows.
> >
> > I read your debunking link, and the only thing I saw
> that it debunked
> > was two stupid questions(IMO).  In fact, the article
> stated that the
> > Earth does produce abiotic hydrocarbons(methane).
> > ( and as usual, I cannot watch the YouTube video,
> sorry)
> >
> > This has nothing to do with C2C that I am aware
> of..where did you get
> > that from?  I searched 'hydrocarbon ocean' and
> found the page
> > interesting reading.  I just learned-from your
> article- that Mendeleev
> > was the originator of the abiotic oil
> thesis..didn't know that before.
> > If Mendeleev and Gold (the Cornell University
> astronomer who wrote the
> > book I asked about) thought there was something to it,
> then I am in good
> > company in believing in this non-mainstream idea you
> call 'utter bunk',
> > but you have a right to your opinion, and it you want
> to follow the
> > trail from this discussion to one of Peak Oil and
> it's relevance to
> > Homesteading, that's cool, but that's not what
> I am doing, and I never
> > implied anything about Peak Oil when I asked if anyone
> had read the
> > book.  I don't necessarily see the concept of
> abiotic oil as one that is
> > contrary to Peak Oil, just that I personally believe
> more fuels may be
> > abiotic than biotic, or at best, the existing fuel was
> formed equally by
> > biotic means and abiotic means.  A finite resource is
> a finite resource,
> > regardless of it's origins.
> >
> >
> >>>> I have heard about oil wells refilling and
> >>> I am vaguely familiar with the deep earth gas
> theory
> >>
> >> Bev, that's the stuff of Coast to Coast and is
> basically utter bunk.
> >>
> >>
> >> If oil or gas were abundant in the mantle of the
> earth, then would we
> >>  not expect that in places where the mantle is
> close to the surface
> >> (such as Hawaii and Yellowstone) we'd find
> abundant oil and gas?  In
> >> fact, we find none.
> >
> >
> > I don't think you can logically make that
> assumption.
> > Diamonds are formed deep in the mantle often near
> ancient volcanic
> > systems, yet you don't find diamonds on Waikiki,
> do you? Diamonds, in
> > fact, are also mostly C12 and C13, a mixture of both
> biotic and abiotic
> > carbon.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> The oil and coal we use containes a predictable
> amount of decayed
> >> carbon 14 showing that it was at one time alive. 
> If the oil's source
> >>  were abiotic, it would be all carbon 12.
> >
> >
> > No, no, no...Oil contains all the isotopes, mostly C12
> and C13.
> > C14 is made in the atmosphere, not inside the Earth. 
> It is the source
> > for the CO2 in our atmosphere. When the plant breathes
> CO2, that is how
> > the C14 is gets into sedimentary deposits.  Fossil
> fuels have almost
> > zero C14, and IMO, what little it does have is there
> from 'mixing' or
> > contamination.
> >
> >
> >> The abiotic oil theories find their origin in the
> fact that most
> >> people find the end of the oil age to be
> unacceptable.
> >
> >
> > That is your assumption and their current missive, to
> undermine the Peak
> > Oil people, but it has nothing to do with whether or
> not the science of
> > whether or not petroleum and other hydrocarbon fuels
> are abiotic in
> > origin or not.
> > I realize that most people who push abiotic origins of
> oil do have an
> > agenda to counter the Peak Oil people, but I had no
> such intention.
> > More on my own intention later, but suffice it to say
> that it had
> > nothing to do with politics or economics.
> >
> >>
> >> There are a few very minor oil fields that seem to
> have 'refilled'.
> >> What your page does not admit to is that when they
> were pumped out
> >> and depleted for a second time, they did not
> refill.  The source of
> >> the "refill" has been identified as
> seepage, not abiotic oil.
> >
> > Seepage, that's descriptive, but not analytical. 
> To me, that says a lot
> > about the geology of the crust, not as much about the
> origin of the oil.
> >
> > http://www.geotimes.org/nov02/NN_oil.html
> >
> >
> > I find it interesting that you will consider
> non-Western ideas and
> > theories when it comes to medicine, government, and
> philosophy, but when
> > it comes to scientific exploration, you tow the
> Western theory/party
> > line of the fossil fuel origin and Peak Oil theory and
> exclude any other
> > contradictory evidence that might point to a slightly
> different
> > conclusion.
> > To say one believes that oil has both abiotic and
> biotic origins means
> > just that.  And if you want to take it a step further
> and talk about the
> > implications and use of that oil, then you will still
> need to act in the
> > same way you personally have chosen to do, to limit
> your dependence on
> > it, because abiotic or not, it is finite.  Even if
> there is a process
> > that creates petrochemicals deep in the mantle, that
> process could be
> > waning as the planet ages, and we can't depend on
> it forever.  Even if I
> > thought every oil well would refill with abiotic oil,
> that doesn't mean
> > that we don't need alternative sources of energy.
> >
> > As to my motives...
> > Yesterday, there was a story about methane vents on
> Mars.  This is NASA
> > practically admitting (as if we did not have enough
> evidence already)
> > not only that there WAS life on Mars, but the
> implications that there
> > still might be microbial life on Mars-deep
> underground.  I started
> > reading about hydrocarbon formation and remembered
> Titans hydrocarbon
> > ocean...a search led me to the _Deep Hot Biosphere_
> book review.
> > Upon reading this and thinking about it...you can
> really make
> > assumptions about the relative abundance of life in
> the universe.
> >
> > If you believe that hydrocarbons and 'fossil
> fuels' truly are solely of
> > biologic origin, then there must be life everywhere in
> the universe.
> > If you believe that hydrocarbons and 'fossil
> fuels' can be of abiotic
> > origin, then you would generally and perhaps logically
> believe that
> > while complex hydrocarbons might be abundant on other
> planets, that life
> > itself is special and evolves randomly.
> > IMO, that was kind of a fun little exercise to think
> about and I thought
> > others might enjoy pondering that as well.  It had
> nothing to do with
> > the politics of Peak Oil, but I suppose it has become
> such.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > "Nothing in this world can take the place of
> persistence. Talent will
> > not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people
> with talent. Genius
> > will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
> Education will not; the
> > world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
> determination alone
> > are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has
> solved and always will solve
> > the problems of the human race"
> >
> > ~ Calvin Coolidge
> > _______________________________________________
> > Homestead list and subscription:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead
> > Change your homestead list member options:
> >
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/lurine%40com-pair.net
> > View the archives at:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1897 -
> Release Date: 1/16/2009 
> > 6:52 AM
> >
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Homestead list and subscription:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead
> Change your homestead list member options:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/bobford79%40yahoo.com
> View the archives at:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead