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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

When I post something like this, it is intended to expand people's
thinking.  It may or may not represent my own thinking.  You have
assigned belief and intent to my post that I did not intend.

Just because I believe that there is such a thing as abiotic oil doesn't
mean that I don't believe in Peak oil or that I believe in deep gas
theory.  Basically, I  while I still believe that some 'fossil fuels'
are created from plants and animals, I also believe that oil and
hydrocarbon fuels can form abiotically.

Just because I believe it can happen that way shouldn't imply that I
believe we should go drilling deep wells or that we would find anything
if we did go deeper.   Perhaps there is no 'reservoir' just a process, I
don't know...I don't think anybody really knows.

I read your debunking link, and the only thing I saw that it debunked
was two stupid questions(IMO).  In fact, the article stated that the
Earth does produce abiotic hydrocarbons(methane).
( and as usual, I cannot watch the YouTube video, sorry)

This has nothing to do with C2C that I am aware of..where did you get
that from?  I searched 'hydrocarbon ocean' and found the page
interesting reading.  I just learned-from your article- that Mendeleev
was the originator of the abiotic oil thesis..didn't know that before.
If Mendeleev and Gold (the Cornell University astronomer who wrote the
book I asked about) thought there was something to it, then I am in good
company in believing in this non-mainstream idea you call 'utter bunk',
but you have a right to your opinion, and it you want to follow the
trail from this discussion to one of Peak Oil and it's relevance to
Homesteading, that's cool, but that's not what I am doing, and I never
implied anything about Peak Oil when I asked if anyone had read the
book.  I don't necessarily see the concept of abiotic oil as one that is
contrary to Peak Oil, just that I personally believe more fuels may be
abiotic than biotic, or at best, the existing fuel was formed equally by
biotic means and abiotic means.  A finite resource is a finite resource,
regardless of it's origins.


> > > I have heard about oil wells refilling and
> > I am vaguely familiar with the deep earth gas theory
>
> Bev, that's the stuff of Coast to Coast and is basically utter bunk.
>
>
> If oil or gas were abundant in the mantle of the earth, then would we
>  not expect that in places where the mantle is close to the surface 
> (such as Hawaii and Yellowstone) we'd find abundant oil and gas?  In 
> fact, we find none.


I don't think you can logically make that assumption.
Diamonds are formed deep in the mantle often near ancient volcanic
systems, yet you don't find diamonds on Waikiki, do you? Diamonds, in
fact, are also mostly C12 and C13, a mixture of both biotic and abiotic
carbon.


> The oil and coal we use containes a predictable amount of decayed 
> carbon 14 showing that it was at one time alive.  If the oil's source
>  were abiotic, it would be all carbon 12.


No, no, no...Oil contains all the isotopes, mostly C12 and C13.
C14 is made in the atmosphere, not inside the Earth.  It is the source
for the CO2 in our atmosphere. When the plant breathes CO2, that is how
the C14 is gets into sedimentary deposits.  Fossil fuels have almost
zero C14, and IMO, what little it does have is there from 'mixing' or
contamination.


> The abiotic oil theories find their origin in the fact that most 
> people find the end of the oil age to be unacceptable.


That is your assumption and their current missive, to undermine the Peak
Oil people, but it has nothing to do with whether or not the science of
whether or not petroleum and other hydrocarbon fuels are abiotic in
origin or not.
I realize that most people who push abiotic origins of oil do have an
agenda to counter the Peak Oil people, but I had no such intention.
More on my own intention later, but suffice it to say that it had
nothing to do with politics or economics.

> There are a few very minor oil fields that seem to have 'refilled'. 
> What your page does not admit to is that when they were pumped out 
> and depleted for a second time, they did not refill.  The source of 
> the "refill" has been identified as seepage, not abiotic oil.

Seepage, that's descriptive, but not analytical.  To me, that says a lot
about the geology of the crust, not as much about the origin of the oil.

http://www.geotimes.org/nov02/NN_oil.html


I find it interesting that you will consider non-Western ideas and
theories when it comes to medicine, government, and philosophy, but when
it comes to scientific exploration, you tow the Western theory/party
line of the fossil fuel origin and Peak Oil theory and exclude any other
contradictory evidence that might point to a slightly different
conclusion.
To say one believes that oil has both abiotic and biotic origins means
just that.  And if you want to take it a step further and talk about the
implications and use of that oil, then you will still need to act in the
same way you personally have chosen to do, to limit your dependence on
it, because abiotic or not, it is finite.  Even if there is a process
that creates petrochemicals deep in the mantle, that process could be
waning as the planet ages, and we can't depend on it forever.  Even if I
thought every oil well would refill with abiotic oil, that doesn't mean
that we don't need alternative sources of energy.

As to my motives...
Yesterday, there was a story about methane vents on Mars.  This is NASA
practically admitting (as if we did not have enough evidence already)
not only that there WAS life on Mars, but the implications that there
still might be microbial life on Mars-deep underground.  I started
reading about hydrocarbon formation and remembered Titans hydrocarbon
ocean...a search led me to the _Deep Hot Biosphere_ book review.
Upon reading this and thinking about it...you can really make
assumptions about the relative abundance of life in the universe.

If you believe that hydrocarbons and 'fossil fuels' truly are solely of
biologic origin, then there must be life everywhere in the universe.
If you believe that hydrocarbons and 'fossil fuels' can be of abiotic
origin, then you would generally and perhaps logically believe that
while complex hydrocarbons might be abundant on other planets, that life
itself is special and evolves randomly.
IMO, that was kind of a fun little exercise to think about and I thought
others might enjoy pondering that as well.  It had nothing to do with
the politics of Peak Oil, but I suppose it has become such.




--
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will
not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius
will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the
world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone
are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve
the problems of the human race"

~ Calvin Coolidge