Homestead mailing list

[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

Hey, congrats on your Christmas present !
 
When I was married I hid my good knives and left cheap ones on the counter 
because the ex used knives for everything except the intended purpose, and he 
had no idea how much the good ones cost.  The favorite seems to be to use 
kitchen knives as screwdrivers.  
 
We all have our favorite length knife.  I for one can not stand a kitchen 
paring knife.  I have one but I almost never use it.  Nothing about it works 
for me, not the handle size or even the way my hand moves the blade.  Its a 
beautiful, well made paring knife, but my coordination and paring knives in 
general do not match.  Once in a while I have to use a small knife, but I 
can't stand it.
 
My total "expenditure" was the equivalent of about 2 hours worth of my labor, 
with about half of the items for me personally.  We're not talking about a 
major "investment" here... LOL.  I got 4 spare poultry scissors too.  The 
first pair I bought only lasted about 5 years w/ heavy use.
 
I know about the uggh on the toilet paper rolls.  I just had to try cutting 
something with the new knife and had nothing else that needed cutting. I do 
have cutting box tool and lots of spare blades. 
 
More or less 1999, I was talking to a Citibank exec acquaintance type.  He 
told me back then he really believed that middle class was considered a 
household income of $80 - $100k per year.
 
People don't much repair things around here either, at least not that I can 
tell.  Judging by the number of gunshots going off (apparently target 
practice in the back "yards"), there are either hunters here or people doing 
target practice for the heck of it or for personal safety practice.  Can't 
tell and haven't asked.  From time to time I find old shotgun shells on the 
ground.  One of the ones I hear gunshots from frequently is a neighbor that 
lives off grid.  They use solar & a windmill for their house.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


--- On Fri, 12/26/08, EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net> wrote:

From: EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Knives - Was - More on Gold
To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 12:11 PM

Morning Leslie, Bob, et al, hope everyone got their Christmas wishes-I
know I did!!
About this this thread and quality, etc..
I think everyone understands everyone else-we are just splitting hairs
on who the market customer is, so no worries there..
Oh Leslie, I did miss that you bought them wholesale, but how much you
paid was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, so it did not
register.  Also, a person can hurt themselves with a superior knife just
as they can with an inferior knife.  I will be the first to admit that I
am still learning the fine points of using knives and how their design
goes to their function.  I feel comfortable in saying that most people
see a knife as a knife, and bigger is better, in their minds.  Because
they don't really use a knife on a day to day basis(do you even know
anyone under 50 who carries a pocket knife anymore?)they don't have the
knowledge that even you do-that the tang should go all the way through
the handle, for example.  Those people will buy your knives and try to
use them for the wrong purpose, a purpose for which they were not
designed, and those people will get hurt.  Not the knife's fault. <g>
 As for your purchases, hey, if you got it to spend, and that's what you
want to do-your philosophy on how to survive and live(buy and
resell)-then that's cool.

> I understand the posts about quality ya de ya de.... but think just for a
moment in terms of inflation hedges and what will be and is already happening 
to
Americans.... the Pooring of America.  More and more people are slipping out 
of
middle class.

I think the middle class disappeared a while back.  I know I left it a
while back, maybe since I've been on this list.  I recall that Rob had a
tag line about poor people living in the country.  When I first met him,
I did not really relate to that, thinking that middle class folks can
also live in the country and homestead, but I think now that I had
already fallen out at that time, only I was still in denial about where
I was in the class structure.  Maybe Rob will post that sig so that I
can get the quote right, but I relate to being poor now.

> 
> If I was going to target the rich, then I would look for the Maserati
>  type knives.  I'm not targeting the rich to sell a few extra knives
to - that is for sure.  And if James is right, those right wouldn't think of
bloodying their hands.

You are right about that, those with money will hire the job out or buy
whatever already processed. I think that while I am poor now, I still
have a middle class mentality, so take my comments with a grain of salt,
but from my observations of the poor around me, those I worked with,
those I live near, etc., and their lives, education, etc.,  I think many
poor people are actually more interested in quality than middle class
thinkers like me who know the quality rule, but still look for a cheap
way out and end up buying inferior stuff to get by.  When I would enter
a conversation with my Hispanic friends, for example, they were often
very interested in quality-quality work, quality ingredients, quality
tools, etc.  Some people just want the status of having something of
quality, but those who work with tools value quality for itself.  An
example...at my former employers, I was the Safety Officer for the plant
and it was my job to order personal protective equipment (PPE) for the
employees and make sure they were trained properly.  They had no
knowledge of the costs of certain supplies, like dust masks or splash
aprons, they just knew what worked and what did not.  They knew what
products kept particulates out of their lungs, and which were no good
because of the straps, fit, or whatever.  When I first took over the
job, I got all kinds of complaints about how the masks and glasses were
crap, glasses lasting only a week.  That is what management was
buying-crap, inferior products, products being purchased not for true
PPE because they did not care whether or not the lowly grunts got sick,
but to meet OSHA req's.  They would approve one type of mask for me, and
another for my friends.  If I did nothing else at that company, I
hopefully made a difference in safety and tried to get decent equipment
for my friends and co-workers.  Point is, they appreciated the safety of
the higher quality goods.  From a financial standard what they ended up
with was only pennies more expensive by the gross usually, but it made a
world of difference to them.  Shoes were another matter..they had to buy
their own shoes.  Not one person wore cheap shoes.  They were all steel
toed, chemical resistant, no-slip...good shoes-no quality compromise..
When it came to their transportation, again, quality bikes.  These are
the working poor, those that are trying to stay afloat and make their
lives more comfortable and since they value quality, they will save and
buy quality.  There was no extra money for buying replacements, so they
bought good stuff to begin with.
But there's more..95% of my neighbors(w/i 7 miles) are poor-under the
poverty line.  They may be buying their clothes and food at Walmart, but
not buying much else.  Most of these people are elderly and they don't
do much 'work' anyway...things just settle into disrepair and they rely
on the goodness of yet another neighbor.   Another portion of them are
living on the dole and wouldn't do for themselves anyway.  Non-working
poor very often wouldn't buy a survival/hunting knife because they have
no need for one.  All of their needs are met by their Uncle, who these
days has seeming bottomless pockets.  They won't be repairing fencing,
or fixing their vehicles.  They live in government housing or
apartments- no animals or lawncare.   This section of poor people
wouldn't buy a knife.
Is there a middle? I'm sure there is, but I don't think it is very big
*right now*.  Maybe as time goes on, the portion of the population that
is willing to sacrifice quality to have a tool of any kind will grow.  I
don't know.  I realize that things are probably different there near the
border, too.


> 
> So far, the first knife I've used myself - for which I did not want to
use my good, expensive kitchen knives............ has already served it's
purpose --- as a multi-purpose tool.  I've been cutting toilet paper and
paper towels rolls in half, as well as carboard boxes.... LOL.  The knife was
excellent and made quick work of that... and when it dulls will give me a 
chance
to check out the nice
>  wet stone that came with it.  Next time I carve up a chicken we'll
see how it works.

<cringe>
:)
Scissors work well on paper tubes, and a good box cutter is a wonderful
thing.  I use my box cutter a lot, and it folds, too, making it easy to
slip in your pocket.  I cut bailing twine in the garden, carpet strips
in the garden(for paths), etc. etc.
You know this, I'm sure, but I just want to make this point for anyone
who might have missed this..
Knives should be of good steel that will sharpen (some won't even
sharpen) and then hold that sharp edge (some are too soft to hold the
edge) of course, but the knife is a TOOL, and the shape of the knife,
the size of the knife, blade, handle, point, edge, is all very important
to the job the knife was designed to do.  The thin, straight blade of a
fillet knife is very different from the curved blade of a chopping
knife.  A bread knife edge is different than the edge of a steak knife.
 Knives are designed for specific functions.


> 
> 
> Hope everyone had a fine holiday !

Ditto!!

Bev




>From erthnsky AT bellsouth.net  Fri Dec 26 13:09:43 2008
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Leslie wrote:
   I got 4 spare
> poultry scissors too.  The first pair I bought only lasted about 5
> years w/ heavy use.

That is one kitchen tool that I use a lot, maybe because I deal in whole
birds/rabbits instead of the BLSL type sold in the stores.  I have a
pair that I inherited from Ron's grandma, who was a Swedish butcher.
The handles are antler, and I love them!

> More or less 1999, I was talking to a Citibank exec acquaintance
> type.  He told me back then he really believed that middle class was
> considered a household income of $80 - $100k per year.

That's narrow.
By his definition, I wasn't raised in the middle, nor have I ever been
in the middle...lol..


>
> People don't much repair things around here either, at least not that
> I can tell.  Judging by the number of gunshots going off (apparently
> target practice in the back "yards"), there are either hunters here
> or people doing target practice for the heck of it or for personal
> safety practice.

Many have lost the skills needed to repair.

B

--
"The world is my country, all mankind are my
  brethren, and to do good is my religion."
  Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809)