Homestead mailing list

[bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

Good am , Leslie.  You know what will work best for you; I did not mean to 
imply otherwise.  Bev mentioned multi-purposes knives for your purposes, to 
go along with your hunting knives.  This link is to a company that retails at 
what they call wholesale prices, but they are actually their retail prices-- 
they will sell chaeaper in quantity on individual items.  

The listed prices are for if you buy an small assortment like you did with 
the hunting knives.  Offer to buy quantities on any particlular item and you 
will see their price drop by half and more.  There are many drop-ship 
companies like this , now easily found on the web.  

I don't know what the future holds and don't know what areas of commerce will 
be most desirable.  Perhaps markets will be unrecognizable compared to today; 
and perhaps they will be similar; I just don't know.  If your best bet is 
that things will become really different and you think that these type items 
will be the most easily bartered, then you concluded further than me.  

What's the weather like around you , today?  ............

http://www.dpciwholesale.com/cart.php?target=category&category_id=181

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Fri, 12/26/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Knives - Was - More on Gold
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 8:27 AM
> LOL- 
>  
> OK let's see, I buy a few knives that come
> with scabbords & wet stones that retail for $59 and up
> and I paid a fraction of the cost.  (Maybe you missed that
> I said wholesale???)  I live in one of the poorest states
> in the country, and right next door to a very poor
> country, and you are worried that I won't be able to
> sell these knives at the flea market for double (i.e. way
> below current retail), double of what I paid because they
> aren't the highest priced quality?   Not to mention
> in inflationary times down the road your concern is that I
> won't be able to sell them for a minimum of double what
> I paid ?
>  
> I think you live in a very different world than a lot of
> people - i.e. the target consumer for these knives. 
> Let's say you make minimum wage or just above, and you
> lost or broke your knife and it is something you use often,
> maybe to slit chickens throats with.  Are you really going
> to choose the most expensive knife out there that might
> cost 1-2 week's paycheck,,, or choose a really decent
> looking $49 knife on sale for $14 (I.E. two hours worth of
> minimum wage)?  Think about it.
>  
> Another example.... the Dollar Store type stores.  People
> go there and buy diluted dish soap for $1 (don't get
> caught up in the price.... pay attention to the concept). 
> The half size container of dish soap contains .05 cents
> worth max of chemicals (this I actually do know because I
> used to make this stuff, only mine was concentrated).  Most
> of the cost is the cost of the plastic container and the cap
> and the label.  People see the $1 purchase price and buy
> because that is what they can afford, not realizing that if
> they bought a gallon size of concentrated soap much more of
> their purchase proportionately would go to the contents
> versus the container.... or maybe they do know, but just
> don't have the extra money.  They do not care if the
> soap is a brand name or not.  They just need something that
> will get the grease off their dishes, and they buy what they
> can afford --- not the best quality, most highly advertised
> product.  
>  
> I understand the posts about quality ya de ya de.... but
> think just for a moment in terms of inflation hedges and
> what will be and is already happening to Americans.... the
> Pooring of America.  More and more people are slipping out
> of middle class.  
>  
> If I was going to target the rich, then I would look for
> the Maserati type knives.  I'm not targeting the rich
> to sell a few extra knives to - that is for sure.  And if
> James is right, those right wouldn't think of bloodying
> their hands.
>  
> So far, the first knife I've used myself - for which I
> did not want to use my good, expensive kitchen
> knives............ has already served it's purpose ---
> as a multi-purpose tool.  I've been cutting toilet
> paper and paper towels rolls in half, as well as carboard
> boxes.... LOL.  The knife was excellent and made quick work
> of that... and when it dulls will give me a chance to check
> out the nice wet stone that came with it.  Next time I
> carve up a chicken we'll see how it works.
>  
>  
> Hope everyone had a fine holiday !
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 12/25/08, bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From: bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 11:09 AM
> 
> Everyone needs to decide on their niche, Leslie, you are
> right.  But, always
> remeber the purpose of an item.  If it can't hold an
> edge , is it really a
> knife?  People pay extra for good quality tools for
> utilitarian purposes  -- the
> 'brand' is established because of the quality of
> the function.
> 
> You mentioned the safety aspect in firearm magazines, the
> same applies to a
> dull knife.  And, you can do better than $7 bucks each-- a
> lot better, by the
> gross-- if you want to buy cheap chinese hunting knives.  I
> don't know the
> knives of which you speak, maybe they are of better than
> average chinese
> quality.  But a good knife is more than a pointy piece of
> steel, ;-) 
> 
> I have sevarl really nice pieces of art leslie; and I also
> own a couple of crap
> pieces that were received as gifts and have sentimental
> attachment.  The good
> stuff always sells the fastest, no matter the market.  
> 
> I'm only playing devil's advocate here, you do as
> you please.  But,
> check further into wholesale price vs. value, chinese stuff
> is being
> 'dumped'............
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 12/25/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 8:52 AM
> > Merry Xmas to all also !
> >  
> > A wholesale price of $7 US apiece (on average) for
> hunting
> > knives varying in length from 8" - 13"
> including
> > scabbords & small shapening stones, regardless of
> where
> > the stainless came from seems like a really good
> deal. 
> > Then there are the shorter straight blades, more of a
> > multi-purpose stainless steel knife ($3 - $5
> wholesale).
> >  
> > Maybe not for a knife affecionado who still has
> sufficient
> > currency.  But for someone who has lost or broke
> their
> > knife, for suddenly finds themselves in need of one
> down the
> > road and at a reasonable price.... they will sell. 
> >  
> > I am thinking in terms of the old saying I first heard
> as a
> > kid,,,, "Service the masses, live with the
> classes.
> > Service the classes, live with the masses."   
> 
> >  
> > The masses can not afford the most expensive knives...
> but
> > they still need knives.
> > 
> >  
> > There are a lot of people who think differently about
> > bying quality.  Some will look for quality and buy
> > something of the best quality that will last a
> lifetime. 
> > So say for example they spend $200 on a single
> knife. 
> > Others will take the same $200, and buy 30-40 cheap
> knives,
> > sell off half of them for $200, get their original
> money
> > back, and keep the balance, using the spares as
> replacements
> > for when the cheaper ones break, get lost, etc.
> >  
> > People buy the best quality that they can afford,,,,,
> key
> > word being afford.
> >  
> > The quality of things in general is really going down
> hill
> > --- because masses can not afford quality.
> >  
> > For example, my decent quality hand mixer of some 20
> years,
> > totally broke down last month.... a tool I use often
> in the
> > kitchen.  So I trotted over to Walmart to find a
> > replacement.  There were 3 varieties, one of $6, one
> for
> > $12, and one for $29.  I opened the box of the $29
> first,
> > and was appalled, super super appalled at the
> quality.  It
> > was total junk and totally useless in a kitchen,
> although it
> > had the specific gadget I was looking for.  Same with
> the
> > $12 one.  Appalling quality.  The $6 one actually
> was
> > better, but didn't have the gadget I was looking
> for in
> > a mixer (bread hooks).  I wound up leaving in
> disgust. 
> > Yet, these mixers are in fact selling.... because that
> is
> > what the masses can afford. 
> >  
> > >From the point of view of re-sale,,, I have no
> doubts
> > about selling them.  The masses are getting poorer by
> the
> > day.
> >  
> > >From the point of view of personal use, I would
> prefer
> > super quality - and if I can't afford, then lots
> of
> > back-up replacements.  LOL.
> >  
> > For guns, I think I would think differently though, as
> I
> > would guess there are probably personal safety issues
> > involved. 
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 12/25/08, bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 10:06 AM
> > 
> > Good am and Merry Christmas to you, Leslie.  The
> jagged or
> > serratted edge on on
> > a hunting knife is for the same use as its function on
> any
> > knife --sawing motion
> > for tough cutting.
> > 
> > Personally, I would not waste my time with Chinese
> knives
> > for future barter.  I
> > realize the Chinese are now manufacturing for some of
> the
> > better names, but that
> > has badly  tarnished the reputation of some of those
> names.
> >  All of the knives I
> > curerently own , hunting or otherwise were made in
> Germany
> > or the U.S.  I
> > don't see a time where I would change that (there
> are
> > very pricey knives of
> > Japanese steel and manufacture and other such, but for
> a
> > regular person, Germany
> > or U.S. is always much better.
> > 
> > The same is true for other 'tools'.  Don't
> buy
> > cheap Chinese
> > knock-off pistol magazines,  Buy them from U.S. or
> country
> > of origiin.  There
> > are Chinese magazines that are fine, but you need to
> know
> > which. 
> > 
> >  Cheaper is not better with tools.  Same applies to
> > handtools.  I'll bet if
> > someone like Don has any Chinese tools, they are
> carried as
> > a set that might be
> > lost or as a back-up because they were cheap.  Chinese
> > tools are better than
> > noithing, but usually not good enough to defray the
> fact
> > that they will always
> > be cheap tools.
> > 
> > Binoculars, I don't know.  My pair are from
> germany,
> > but they are very old.
> >  Japamese optics since the 60's have been
> excellent, I
> > have read.
> > 
> > Steel might go back up in price, as will cheap,
> moderately
> > priced, and
> > expensive knives, when that occurs.  But, it is much
> more
> > likely that pistol or
> > rifle full capacity magazines will become more scarce
> and
> > easier to barter, for
> > there are now the present political considerations,
> also.
> > 
> > I don't know the best set of moderately priced
> > wrenches, for example.  But,
> > that might do you better than a big mean looking
> hunting
> > knife for barter if
> > that is your purpose.  
> > 
> > Many options .......  
> > 
> > If you know for a fact that you will be in that place
> for
> > the future, and that
> > it will be 'X' number of people; I would first
> > concentrate (as you
> > already are) on all of the needs and desires for those
> > "X" people for
> > whatever "Y" amount of time, you fear or
> plan
> > that you might need. 
> > After that , it is all a hedge.  Hedge with what you
> know
> > best and think will
> > travel best and will be most easily exchangable.
> > 
> > Good talking with you on this Christmas am
> > .......................
> > 
> > 
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 12/25/08, Leslie
> <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > > To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 4:49 AM
> > > A good contingency plan....
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > I suspect gold is a good vehicle for storing
> excess
> > saved
> > > wealth during very specific periods of time
> (collapse
> > of
> > > currency,hyperinflation) and as a way to pass on
> that
> > wealth
> > > to heirs without the taxman stealing any.  As
> well as
> > a
> > > currency two individuals can use for trade if
> there is
> > an
> > > agreement on value.
> > >  
> > > For immediate survival needs, tools, ammo etc a
> very
> > good
> > > investment.
> > >  
> > > I made another excellent "investment"
> this
> > week
> > > that I was able to get at wholesale prices, and
> > I'm
> > > thinking of getting more to use as barter. 
> Hunting
> > knives
> > > of various lengths, bone saws, filet knives,
> skinning
> > > knives, general all purpose knives, field
> binoculars
> > (with
> > > surprisingly good optics).  And of course all
> made in
> > > China.....  I figured since I don't know how
> to
> > make
> > > steel.... it's a good investment.
> > >  
> > > Question.... on the hunting knives.... some of
> them
> > have
> > > some wicked jagged edges on the upper side. 
> What is
> > the
> > > jagged edge really for?
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Merry Xmas, all
> > > 
> > > --- On Wed, 12/24/08, rayzentz AT aim.com
> > > <rayzentz AT aim.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > From: rayzentz AT aim.com <rayzentz AT aim.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > > To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com,
> homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 9:56 AM
> > > 
> > > You know, until recently, I was planning on
> buying
> > more
> > > gold, but figured it was
> > > more prudent to stock up on items that may not be
> > > available..., food, firearms,
> > > ammo, tools, etc. Those may be of more value than
> > gold, and
> > > much more readily
> > > "spendable"
> > > Ray
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > > To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com;
> homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:41 am
> > > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Leslie my comments were specific to Dr. Fekete
> 's
> > > meaning, using his own
> > > words : 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > " In the end, no one was willing to exchange
> gold
> > and
> > > silver coins for the
> > > 
> > > debased coinage of the empire."
> > > 
> > > Acoording to him, and others like him, I might
> add,
> > the
> > > gold never lost its 
> > > value; the gold was never debased.  On the
> contrary,
> > > because if its innate, 
> > > intrinsic value, it was hoarded and hidden away,
> for
> > there
> > > was nothing left, 
> > > proclaimed by fiat that had retained enough value
> that
> > the
> > > owners of gold were 
> > > "willing to exchange" their gold.
> > > 
> > > Now, Fekete is an uber goldbug.  I find good
> points in
> > alot
> > > of his writing; but
> > > 
> > > other groups would call him hysterical or even a
> > > 'nut'.
> > > There are other finacial sites similar to
> financial
> > > sense--the site that you 
> > > quote.  Some or bigger, some smaller, but they
> all
> > have
> > > well written commentary
> > > 
> > > by many well educated ,sometimes prominent, men. 
> Each
> > > commengtary makes
> > > perfect 
> > > sense until you read the next commentary.  There
> are
> > many
> > > historical analogies,
> > > 
> > > and different ways of interpreting those
> historical
> > events.
> > >  Even today, our 
> > > best economists still disagree on what finally
> ended
> > the
> > > great depression, and 
> > > that wasn't very long ago.
> > > 
> > > There is also the factor of price manipulation of
> > > currencies (including gold if
> > > 
> > > you consider gold to be money) by governments and
> > > financials cartels all
> > > through 
> > > history.  Much tales of manipulation are real and
> much
> > is
> > > the fabric of told
> > > & 
> > > yet untold conspiracy theories.
> > > 
> > > Dr. Fekete is just another very smart voice.  try
> > > 321Gold.com,or  jsmineset.com
> > > 
> > > , for a bigger variety of commentary.  JSMineset
> is
> > the
> > > most prominent (along 
> > > with the commentry section of Peter Schiff's
> > > Europac.net.).  You seem to be
> > > 
> > > drifting toward to very worst case senario set;
> and
> > you
> > > could very well be 
> > > right.  I'm still reading and thinking,
> having not
> > yet
> > > decided that anyone
> > > is 
> > > even close to perfecting predicting the future. 
> And,
> > I
> > > always 'hope'
> > > for a 
> > > better case scenario..:-) .............
> > > 
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Tue, 12/23/08, Leslie
> > <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > > > To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 10:20 AM
> > > > No I don't think I misinterpreted.
> > > > ?
> > > > In other things I have read, governments,
> > serfdoms,
> > > > kingdoms,?etc. practiced
> "clipping"
> > coins
> > > (i.e
> > > > they cheated on the value of the coin).? The
> > modern
> > > day
> > > > equivalent is clearly seen in US dimes and
> > quarters,
> > > which
> > > > are no longer solid silver.? They have been
> > clipped
> > > > (filled) with other metals.? The US
> government is
> > > cheating
> > > > on the value of coins & paper currency.?
> The
> > > exchange
> > > > of X units of labor for a 100% silver dime,
> is
> > now
> > > exchanged
> > > > for 1/100th% of the same amount of silver
> via
> > > > "clipping"/cheating.? (Not an
> exact
> > number,
> > > but
> > > > illustrative for argument.)? This has been a
> long
> > > drawn out
> > > > process of clipping both metal & paper
> > currency in
> > > the
> > > > US?spanning some 80-90 years.
> > > > ?
> > > > The hoarding events that has lead to current
> time
> > > > backwardation probably?has occured?in two
> > stages.? The
> > > > first being those who hid their gold from
> the
> > > government
> > > > confiscating it some 80-90 ago when the US
> made
> > it
> > > illegal -
> > > > and passed it on to their children.? And the
> > second
> > > wave
> > > > starting when the US made it legal to own
> gold
> > again,
> > > and
> > > > then took us off the gold standard in the
> 1970s
> > > triggering
> > > > fear of monetary collapse.? I would venture
> there
> > are
> > > a lot
> > > > of gold bugs who never sold any of the gold
> they
> > > purchased
> > > > in the 70s as back then they understood the
> > collapse
> > > of the
> > > > fiat currency was underway regardless of how
> > > many?years it
> > > > would take - even if they bought at the
> top.? I
> > know I
> > > was
> > > > in my early twenties, and I understood that
> back
> > then
> > > - that
> > > > gold is to be hoarded and exchanged as the
> > currency
> > > finishes
> > > > collapsing.
> > > > ?
> > > > Fekete explains hoarding was?a long drawn
> out
> > event in
> > > the
> > > > W. Roman Empire, and in modern times we have
> a
> > similar
> > > event
> > > > going on.
> > > > ?
> > > > Backwardation in part is telling us that
> fewer
> > and
> > > fewer
> > > > people?hoardin
> > > g gold/silver today are willing to exchange
> > > > it for paper dollars or for those
> > "clipped"
> > > silver
> > > > dimes and quarters that are no longer 100%
> > silver.
> > > > ?
> > > > Currently the troops are still accepting
> below
> > minimum
> > > > wage(?) paid in the form of paper fiat
> > currency.???If
> > > the
> > > > government doesn't increase their wages
> in
> > sync
> > > with
> > > > hyperinflation - how long will they stay??
> How
> > can
> > > they
> > > > feed their families?? 
> > > > ?
> > > > There is no doubt in my mind that the US
> > Gov't is,
> > > and
> > > > has been for a long time, bankrupt.? So far
> the
> > US is
> > > still
> > > > paying debts by creating more and more
> currency
> > out of
> > > thin
> > > > air.? How long people will continue to
> accept
> > that
> > > form of
> > > > payment is another story.? I do believe
> we're
> > > headed
> > > > for a monetary hyperinflation phase, where
> the
> > > currency
> > > > collapses in the end.? (And not just the US,
> I
> > believe
> > > a
> > > > lot of G-20s are going the same way.)
> > > > ?
> > > > What happens after that??
> > > > ?
> > > > >From what I've read, hyperinflations
> do
> > not
> > > end
> > > > until governments stop issuing
> the?collapsing
> > > currency,
> > > > issue a new currency, and promise not to
> debase
> > it by
> > > > increasing the number of units circulating.?
> It
> > > won't
> > > > work until there is CONfidence that the
> > government
> > > will stop
> > > > the clipping.??I wish I knew if that
> typically
> > happens
> > > > overnight, or if the next new
> currency?typically
> > gets
> > > > clipped again after a short period of
> > CONfidence.?The
> > > gold
> > > > bugs may?hoard their gold, even if it means
> > passing to
> > > the
> > > > next generation... meaning there is no
> > centralized
> > > price
> > > > mechanism.
> > > > ?
> > > > How DO people value gold outside of a
> government
> > > issued
> > > > money system - which in part is what I
> > interpreted
> > > James to
> > > > be talking about.? You can't eat it, but
> you
> > can
> > > use it
> > > > to trade without others willing to accept
> it, but
> > what
> > > is
> > > > the pricing mechanism?? 
> > > > ?
> > > > If the dollar collapses and people are still
> > willing
> > > to
> > > > trade gold for say Euro, you have a pricing
> > > mechanism.? If
> > > > the Euro collapses, and the Canadian or
> NZDollar
> > still
> > > > sports a gold price, you can still exchange
> it,
> > and so
> > > on.?
> > > > After that, how do people come to a cons
> > > ensus of value - of
> > > > fair value?? If no one is willing to trade
> for
> > ANY
> > > fiat
> > > > currency, then what?
> > > > ?
> > > > The way I read Fekete's article is that
> > during the
> > > dark
> > > > ages there was a period where you could not
> count
> > on
> > > > gold/silver being used as a medium of
> exchange.?
> > It
> > > may
> > > > have been because there was no way to
> determine
> > value
> > > (i.e.
> > > > how many grams would be worth a dozen eggs,
> > etc.)? He
> > > > states that gold/silver went into hiding
> never to
> > > re-emerge
> > > > during the lifetime of the original
> holders.? I
> > assume
> > > from
> > > > that that it was passed on from generation
> to
> > > generation
> > > > until such time as there was a reason to
> swap out
> > into
> > > a
> > > > different kind of currency or other medium
> of
> > exchange
> > > (as
> > > > there have been many besides gold/silver).?
> Of
> > course
> > > back
> > > > then, computers and modern transportation
> did not
> > > exist to
> > > > facilitate world wide trading.
> > > > ?
> > > > In a Dark Ages II type scenario, you
> can't
> > eat
> > > gold,
> > > > can't wear it, can't heat with it.?
> > However,
> > > you
> > > > can pass it to the next generation
> clandestinely
> > and
> > > avoid
> > > > paying taxes to theiving governments.? LOL.?
> 
> > > > ?
> > > > I think Fekete is saying that gold/silver
> retains
> > > value as
> > > > a more wide-spread medium of exchange
> (whether in
> > > physical
> > > > metal or metal backed currency) only when
> their
> > is
> > > > wide-spread confidence in the governing
> body.? 
> > > > ?
> > > > Under a chaotic government(s) situation -
> and
> > limited
> > > > person to person gold/silver exchange - a
> large
> > > > landowner/farmer MIGHT be willing to
> exchange his
> > > excess
> > > > food production for some gold IF his goal is
> to
> > > acquire gold
> > > > for his heirs or for a time when the
> governing
> > body
> > > can be
> > > > trusted again.? However, a small farmer
> barely
> > able to
> > > > produce above his own needs is not going to
> swap
> > his
> > > one
> > > > extra chicken for gold if he needs a horse
> shoe
> > from
> > > the
> > > > blacksmith for his plow, and the blacksmith
> > > doesn't want
> > > > gold but needs to eat.
> > > > ?
> > > > I don't know if the US or the world will
> > decsend
> > > into
> > > > another Dark Ages; I don't discount the
> > > possibility -
> > > > but I don't have any way of determining
> how
> > far
> > > out
> > > > along the fat tail of a
> > >  bell curve?the possibility?of a
> > > > Dark Ages II needs to go.? Of if we will
> just
> > return
> > > to a
> > > > more agrarian society, or what.
> > > > ?
> > > > One point that Fekete makes is that he
> foresees a
> > time
> > > when
> > > > there would be no sellers of gold/silver.? I
> > would
> > > have to
> > > > think about that for a long time.? But my
> first
> > > thought, is
> > > > maybe initially but, I think in time?some
> would
> > be
> > > willing
> > > > to sell as a last resort (or not knowing the
> > value) to
> > > those
> > > > who have excess production, who see
> gold/silver
> > as a
> > > future
> > > > generation(s) way of preserving wealth.? 
> > > > ?
> > > > On your point, "Anyone who now believes
> > things
> > > will
> > > > become 'that bad', should be out
> with
> > ropes,
> > > rifles,
> > > > pitchforks, and whatever else will kill and
> maim
> > those
> > > in
> > > > power who would allow such a thing to
> > occur."
> > > > ?
> > > > True, but in truth WHO allowed it to occur??
> WE
> > DID.
> > > WE
> > > > who did not rise up in anger at the
> debasement of
> > the
> > > > currency and put a stop to it.? WE who
> understood
> > the
> > > > consequences and failed to teach values of
> > exchange
> > > and of
> > > > production and self-preservation through our
> own
> > > efforts.?
> > > > WE DO deserve to get a new Dark Ages, not
> because
> > we
> > > are
> > > > sitting and waiting for it, but because we
> failed
> > to
> > > > recognize the cause of it and failed to
> prevent
> > it,
> > > even
> > > > with all of our accumulated knowledge of
> > thousands of
> > > years.
> > > > ?
> > > > Although ropes and guillotines won't be
> > needed -
> > > > starvation and disease will take care of it.
> > > > ?
> > > > Yes, it echoes of Ayn Rand, but to me it is
> the
> > much
> > > more
> > > > accurate to blame "we" than those
> in
> > power.
> > > > ?
> > > > ?
> > > > PS CAPS are not "yelling",,,, but
> meant
> > to
> > > > emphasis on paper the words I would emphasis
> in
> > > person.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Tue, 12/23/08, bobf
> > <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > From: bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > > > To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com,
> > homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 11:04 AM
> > > > 
> > > > Leslie, I believe you mis-read Dr.
> Fekets's
> > > intenet
> > > > where he draws upon
> > > > historical anaylis.  He wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > "............... causation goes in the
> > opposite
> > > > direction. The
> > > 
> > > > disappearance of gold and silver coins as a
> means
> > of
> > > > exchange was a
> > > > long-drawn-out, cumulative event. In the
> end, no
> > one
> > > was
> > > > willing to exchange
> > > > gold and silver coins for the debased
> coinage of
> > the
> > > > empire. At that point the
> > > > empire was bankrupt; it could no longer pay
> the
> > troops
> > > that
> > > > defended its
> > > > boundaries against the barbarians
> threatening
> > with
> > > > invasion.'......."
> > > > 
> > > > That is to say, that the gold and silver
> still
> > > retained
> > > > their value , in his
> > > > opinion; but ttheir was nothing left in the
> fiat
> > > system
> > > > worth the trade value of
> > > > the gold and silver.  And, if we are sitting
> and
> > > waiting
> > > > for a return of the
> > > > "dark ages", we desrve whatever we
> get,
> > > anyway. 
> > > > Anyone who now
> > > > believes things will become 'that
> bad',
> > should
> > > be
> > > > out with ropes,
> > > > rifles, pitchforks, and whatever else will
> kill
> > and
> > > maim
> > > > those in power who
> > > > would allow such a thing to occur.  Most of
> us
> > think
> > > we are
> > > > witnessing a
> > > > calamity, but not anything close to a repeat
> of
> > the
> > > > 'Dark Ages'.
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Tue, 12/23/08, Leslie
> > > <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > ?
> > > > > Fekete writes an update on the outlook
> for
> > the
> > > value
> > > > of
> > > > > gold.? This one is quite interesting as
> he
> > talks
> > > > about what
> > > > > happened to gold/silver during/after
> the
> > collapse
> > > of
> > > > the
> > > > > Western Roman Empire and the parallels
> to
> > today.?
> > > > History
> > > > > supports James'?points a couple
> weeks
> > > ago?that
> > > > > gold/silvere will have zero value - the
> > pricing
> > > > mechanism
> > > > > will be gone.
> > > > > ?
> > > > > Fekete warns that gold in backwardation
> in
> > Dec
> > > 2008,
> > > > is
> > > > > warning, is a premonition of what is
> coming
> > down
> > > the
> > > > road.?
> > > > > He believes there will be repeated
> instances
> > of
> > > > > backwardation, each more severe than
> the
> > > preceeding,
> > > > as
> > > > > gold/silver go into hiding.?
> Hyperinflation
> > and
> > > > ultimately
> > > > > the collapse of the monetary system - a
> > point
> > > where
> > > > > gold/silver will not have a value
> either,
> > because
> > > > those
> > > > > hoarding will not be willing to part
> with
> > it,
> > > until
> > > > such
> > > > > t
> > > ime as confidence in a fiat currency returns.? 
> > > > > ?
> > > > > After the collapse of the Roman Empire
> we
> > went
> > > into
> > > > the
> > > > > Dark Ages, where payment in gold/silver
> > could not
> > > be
> > > > taken
> > > > > for granted - gold/silver went into
> hiding
> > never
> > > to
> > > > > re-emerge during the lifetime of the
> > original
> > > > holders.?
> > > > > Fekete warns that the disappearance of
> > > gold/silver is
> > > > > ominous.
> > > > > ?
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > >
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> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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> > > >
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