Homestead mailing list

[bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

Fair enough , Lynda.  One last note on this subject.  Because of where I 
live; I'll bet that I'm the only person on this list , other than you, who 
has eaten hand made Indian Fry Bread with honey .........................



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--- On Sat, 12/6/08, Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net> wrote:

> From: Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Boarding schools, was Who attacked whom?
> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 10:52 PM
> Bob, you are the one that said you friend was
> "white" and thought of himself as
> "white."  That would make him an apple.  Then in
> this e-mail you turn around and say how proud he is to be
> Cherokee.  I based what I said on what you had said.
> 
> And, no Bob, I'm not as "white" as anyone
> else on this list and it isn't only on one issue.
> 
> As to the reunions at the boarding schools, you have heard
> of Munchausen Syndrome, haven't you?   A lot of the
> folks who go back for the reunions do so because the
> government considers them a success.  The "making them
> white" and "making them civilized" took. 
> However, I know some folks who go back so they can spit on
> the buildings and other things a tad more, hmmmm,
> demonstrative?  To flaunt that it didn't take.
> 
> And, yes you do have a major Indian hospital.  Remember the
> references to IHS.  Well, the original hospital taught a
> whole bunch of doctors how to do tubal ligations,
> visectomies and hysterectomies!
> 
> Also, you are rather confused as to what makes a person an
> apple or pan Indian.  When the only thing about you that is
> red is your skin, then you are an apple.  hanging around
> with folks who have the same interests as you doesn't
> change who you are or make you what they are.  Just means
> you have the same interests.  I mean, using your logic, then
> all of us should be star gazers (Bev), fiercely independent
> (James) or Indian (me <g>).
> 
> What makes me "red" is that I think differently
> about a lot of things than you do.  I instinctively know
> some things and understand some things which you will never
> know or understand.  I get Indian humor without anyone
> having to explain the jokes to me.  I get what a 49 is.  I
> get the humor of a rez rocket.  I know what Indian time is
> (and it does exist <g>).
> 
> Just like James has explained in the past, you can go and
> live where he lives.  Be a neighbor for 50, 75 or even a 100
> years and you still won't be one of them.
> 
> Sorta like while I understand more about the South than
> most outsiders, can agree with them on a whole bunch of
> issues and have an accent that can come back in a heart beat
> that is thick enough to cut with a knife, that doesn't
> make me Southern.
> 
> So, no, we don't approach things from a similar angle. 
> We can agree on all kinds of things but you will never
> understand the innate me.  Doesn't mean we can't be
> friends.  Doesn't mean we wouldn't get along IRL. 
> Just means we come to this with a world of different
> experiences and thousands of years of different heritage
> memories.
> 
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob ford"
> <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> 
> 
> > Lynda, I doubt my friend would like being called an
> "apple".  but, by that definition, other than on
> this subject, you are as 'white' as all of the rest
> of us (that is not a perjorative, coming from me).
> > 
> > My friend was proud to be Cherokee.  Maybe as a middle
> aged man , he is more like you are now, I don't know. 
> Just a normal Southern boy growing up; I see nothing wrong
> with that.  His daddy could be a mean SOB (He pulled me over
> for speeding once -- he didn't ticket me but chewed me
> out).
> > 
> > By the wasy, they have had big reunions at the Indian
> School here.  Indian School Road is one of the major roads
> in Phioenix.  Indians come from all over the country for the
> reunions at the school.  They seem to be proud of attending
> the school.  It is a park, now.  But, when I moved here, it
> was still a school.  We also have a major Indian Hospital,
> where you must be an Indian to be seen.  I don't really
> know how it wqorks, I've never been there.
> > 
> > I have a famous artist friend, last name Yazzi, so you
> know he is Navajo (D'Naia - sp?).  He served a couple of
> tours in the Marines.  very well educated and hangs out with
> the hipster artists, because he is an artist. He certainly
> wouldn't like to be called an apple.
> > 
> >  I live in Phoenix, for goodness sakes, I have known,
> mostly casually, a lot of Indians. You know that Barry
> Goldwater had more influence in this state than any one man
> and he was a great friend of the Indians all of his life.
> I've also been to more than one rez, they can be rough. 
> They have not only poverty , but gangs and drugs just like
> the city..  I don't think you should generalize about
> all Indians.  They have very different experiences just like
> all other peoples.
> > 
> > What makes you so much different than me, as far as
> "red" and "white". Except for this
> issue, I agree with you on as many things, and approach life
> from a simiar angle to you as anyone else on this list and
> most of us, as far as I know, are white as apple pie   ;-) 
> ..........bobford
> > 
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
> >> Subject: [Homestead] Boarding schools, was Who
> attacked whom?
> >> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 3:00 PM
> >> The whole boarding school thing went on in the
> U.S., Canada
> >> and Australia.
> >> 
> >> Now, speaking of a violent nation, you might be
> interested
> >> to know that the
> >> Office of Indian Affairs (later to become the BIA)
> came
> >> into existance in
> >> 1824 as an office of . . . drumroll here <g>
> the
> >> United States Department of
> >> War!  Kinda tells you right off the top exactly
> how the
> >> government felt
> >> about the Indians.  And one of their first acts
> was the
> >> Indian Relocation
> >> Act of 1830.  I would think most folks are
> familiar with
> >> the Trail of Tears
> >> (4,000 dead) which is a direct result of the IRA.
> >> 
> >> So, around the 1850s the head honchos in the BIA
> decided
> >> that there should
> >> be a policy of "Americanization" of
> Indians
> >> (hmmmm, interesting how they
> >> wanted to make the First Americans into
> Americans).  That
> >> plants a seed and
> >> pretty soon the good Christians are out in force
> with their
> >> missionary
> >> schools with the intent of
> "Christianizing" the
> >> "heathens" and "savages."
> >> Grant comes along and wants the Indians to
> "embrace
> >> the only opportunity
> >> which is left them to avoid extermination."
> >> 
> >> Next step was prison for 30 years for practicing
> >> "heathen rituals."  Indians
> >> needed to "assimilate" and folks such as
> >> Bob's friend were the result,
> >> "apples" (red on the outside, white on
> the
> >> inside).
> >> 
> >> When all of this didn't work, they invented
> the
> >> boarding schools.  Carlisle
> >> is the most famous (infamous?).  It was founded by
> Richard
> >> Henry Pratt who
> >> said, and I quote, "A great general has said
> that the
> >> only good Indian is a
> >> dead one.  In a sense, I agree with this
> sentiment, but
> >> only in this:  that
> >> all the Indian there is in the race should be
> dead.  Kill
> >> the Indian in him
> >> and save the man."  He believed in
> "assimilation
> >> through total immersion"
> >> and commented that "as slavery has
> assimilated
> >> Africans, removing Indians
> >> entirely from their cultural surroundings will
> result in
> >> their
> >> assimilation."  Did I mention that he was an
> Army
> >> captain and that he
> >> practiced his "techniques" on prisoners
> before he
> >> opened his boarding
> >> schools?
> >> 
> >> In general, the children were rounded up and
> forcibly
> >> removed from their
> >> homes.  They were not allowed to take any personal
> items
> >> with them.
> >> Generally, families were broken up and children
> from a
> >> family were sent to
> >> different boarding schools.  Family and friends
> were
> >> *discouraged* from
> >> visiting.  Upon arrival at the schools they were
> issues
> >> uniforms and their
> >> hair was cut.  Buster Brown was the hair cut of
> choice
> >> because many tribes
> >> considered "shingled" hair to be a sign
> of
> >> weakness and worn by cowards.
> >> They had their names changed so their
> "pagan"
> >> past could be erased.  A lot
> >> of the schools dressed the girls up in white
> dresses or
> >> white pinafores over
> >> their dresses.  Native languages were not to be
> spoken.
> >> Punishment ranged
> >> from having their mouths washed out with lye soap
> to
> >> beatings to loss of
> >> food.  Religion classes and church attendance was
> required
> >> daily.  Getting
> >> the white dresses dirty resulted in beatings. 
> Most of the
> >> schools hired out
> >> the boys as day labor.  Girls were required to
> learn
> >> "womanly arts" and put
> >> to work in the local homes as maids.  Some of the
> schools
> >> ran their own
> >> industries and farms.
> >> 
> >> The usual brainwashing tactics were used -- no
> privacy;
> >> going to bed and rising was done by signal;
> >> they wore uniforms;
> >> they marched to and from activities;
> >> they were arranged into "companies"
> under the
> >> command of student captains
> >> and majors;
> >> they were only allowed to bath once or twice
> weekly in
> >> groups;
> >> students were expected to spy on each other and
> pitted
> >> against each other by
> >> administrators and teachers;
> >> they were "taught" that the Indian way
> of life
> >> was "savage" and "inferior"
> >> to the white way;
> >> they were taught they were being
> "civilized" or
> >> "raised up" to a better way
> >> of life;
> >> they were told that Indians who retained their
> culture were
> >> "stupid,"
> >> "dirty" and "backwards;"
> >> they were taught that those who most quickly
> assimilated
> >> were "good"
> >> Indians;
> >> they were taught that those who didn't
> assimilate were
> >> "bad" Indians;
> >> they were shamed and humilated for showing
> homesickness for
> >> their families;
> >> flogging or kneeling for extended periods of time
> were a
> >> frequent
> >> punishment.
> >> 
> >> Here's a poem written by one of the boarding
> school
> >> students:
> >> 
> >> Six o'clock in the morning,
> >> Our breakfast comes around.
> >> A bowl of mush and molasses,
> >> Was enough to knock you down.
> >> Our coffee's like tobacco juice,
> >> Our bread is hard and stale,
> >> and that's the way they treat you
> >> At Mt. Pleasant Indian Jail.
> >> 
> >> My aunts and uncle plus a few cousins were sent to
> the
> >> Hoopa Valley Indian
> >> Re-Education Center which was run, in part, by
> Shakers.
> >> Traumatic, not only
> >> in that they were taken away from home but
> traumatic
> >> because people didn't
> >> "go up the mountain where the crazy Indians
> >> live."   Hoopa Valley is HOT,
> >> dry, dusty and there's a world of difference
> between it
> >> and the coast.  The
> >> Hupa (the valley and the tribe are not spelled the
> same)
> >> kids were sent down
> >> to Riverside, for the most part.
> >> 
> >> For the most part, the Wiyot were sent to Arizona.
>  The
> >> Yurok were sent to
> >> Oregon.  Somehow, probably knowing important
> people in high
> >> places, Grampa
> >> got his kids sent to a school he and Gramma could
> get to to
> >> visit them.  And
> >> he did visit which was way against the rules. 
> Again, he
> >> got white folks in
> >> high places to give him rides up to the rez (he
> never did
> >> drive).  My uncle
> >> died when he was 12.  Auntie Florence was 14 and
> Auntie
> >> Elsie was 11.  A
> >> week after Sonny Boy died my grandparents were
> informed of
> >> his death.  I'm
> >> not sure they would have been notitied that soon
> if Auntie
> >> Elsie hadn't
> >> become hysterical.  There was nothing they could
> do to calm
> >> her down.
> >> Grampa got the message, called Old Man Carson and
> headed up
> >> the mountain to
> >> collect all three kids.  Sonny Boy was buried in
> the
> >> cemetary we own.
> >> Auntie Florence never talked about the time at the
> boarding
> >> school and
> >> Auntie Elsie spent the next 50 years telling
> everyone she
> >> was W-H-I-T-E!
> >> She married a very blonde man and was quite upset
> when 2 of
> >> her 5 kids had
> >> dark hair.
> >> 
> >> Sonny Boy had appendicitis.  He was beat with a
> rubber hose
> >> and told to stop
> >> whining.  That if he'd become a good Christian
> instead
> >> of a being a dirty
> >> heathen, this evil wouldn't be coming out of
> him.  He
> >> was sent to his bunk
> >> without food (probably would have been a good
> thing).  A
> >> couple of days
> >> later, the doctor made a routine visit to the
> school and he
> >> was diagnosed
> >> with acute appendicitis.  They operated in the
> infirmary.
> >> His appendix had
> >> ruptured.  They removed the appendix, cleaned up
> the
> >> abdominal cavity, sewed
> >> him up and promptly moved him to the little room
> off the
> >> main room.  The
> >> next morning someone went to check on him. 
> He'd rolled
> >> off the bed and bled
> >> to death.  No one watched him as he came out from
> the
> >> anesthesia.  There
> >> were no rails on the bed.
> >> 
> >> O.K., that's the boarding school part. 
> I'll put
> >> the tribe history in
> >> another e-mail.  I'm inclined to write books
> instead of
> >> short e-mails <g>
> >> 
> >> Lynda
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
> >> 
> >> I'm glad you brought this up..I was actually
> thinking
> >> about it today.
> >> I would like to learn the whens, whos, wheres and
> whys of
> >> this..if you
> >> would oblige..
> >> I would like a brief tribe history.
> >> 
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> > 
> > 
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