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  • From: bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Throwing the Gun
  • Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 06:09:44 -0700 (PDT)

Okay, what is cold hard cash? You say that real hard cash is still real
hard cash, and that the average Joe still uses real hard cash (as opposed to
credit or cash flow?).

The following are some basic statistics from the Fed and from cardweb and
another site or so , and some I wouldn't know know how to look for the
actual statistics.

1)The average American owes over $9000.00 in credit card debt. That figure
is misleading because some people (myself included) use CC alot, but never
pays interest, pays it off at the end of every month. Still, about half of
the people who do carry debt, carry a 'median' debt of about $2200.00.
Between 75% & 80& of all Americans (not just citizens) use credit cards.

All of the above would apply to the average Joe.


2)I can not find a source for this, If you can, please help. I would think
that most Americans either carry a mortgage Or pay rent, one of the two. My
mortgage is paid off, but most people, I would think (but can't cite stats)
either carry a mortgage Or pay rent. Rent or mortgage implies use of credit.

the above would apply to the average Joe.


3) Over 82% of americans carry a cellphone (I do not). Cell phone usage
generally implies a monthly plan (my wife carries a pre-paid cell phone for
emergencies)which implies credit.

the above would apply to the average Joe.


4) I couldn't find a stat for what percentage of Americans presently have an
auto loan . I'll guess it is probably at least 50 % since the average length
of car note is now five years. (my autos were bought with cash). I did find
this "The typical buyer in 1975 borrowed about $17,000, adjusted for
inflation, to buy a new car. By 2006, that figure had climbed 63 percent, to
more than $27,000. ". Remeber that both figures are in today's dollars,
having been adjusted for inflation. This takes significant credit.

the above would apply to the average Joe.


5)Most people have homeowners or renters insurance (I pay mine a year in
advance, the longest they will allow), most people have auto insurance ( i
pay mine six months in advance, the longest they will allow). Both of these,
especially when paid as monthly payments, do imply credit. And, I'm not even
going to try on health or life insurance --far too complicated.

the above would apply to the average Joe.


Now, I could throw in other misc., such as monthly utilities, etc., but my
point is that I don't see how "average Joe" is less dependent on credit. I
don't see how "cold , hard cash" is something for which Average Joe uses to
his benefit , realtive to the upper tier of society.

And, even if average Joe does use cash, every paycheck, to pay his bills on
time, and buys nothing unnecessarily; how does that help him when inflation
comes into the picture? If his job or pension continues to pay him $X,XXX
every paycheck, but the price of most things increase, not because the
product is scarcer, but because the dollar is worth less; how does Joe
benefit.?

what happens when the plant, factory, gov't , etc. for which average joe
works starts laying off people. It is not the high flyers, who worry in this
situation, it is average Joe.


I'm not arguing. I posted how some applies to me, to show that , as an
individual, it would benefit me , if you are correct. Please would someone
show me where I am wrong.

I simply do not see how average Joe benefits. Instead, I see the same people
who were reckless before, being able to slide through, with some discomfort.
And, I see Average Joe being crushed. .............bobford









http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/creditcardsmarts/P150744.asp

http://www.gearlog.com/2007/11/us_cellphone_penetration_tops.php

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/03/americans_today_take_nearly_tw.html


--- On Sat, 10/4/08, Wendy <crazygardens AT verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Wendy <crazygardens AT verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Throwing the Gun
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 2:41 AM
> You know, I must be going senile, but I totally agree again
> with James. His
> "throwing the gun" analogy is a very accurate
> one. Also interesting to note
> is that when the markets began to shake, the price of oil
> began to drop.
> Gas at our local station fell 20 cents over night. I still
> stand that this
> crumbling of the top level of our economic structure is
> actually a good
> thing. It has been top heavy for a long time. It will
> point out how many
> people depend on the illusion that cash flow creates wealth
> or that the
> imaginary money contained in stock value is somehow real.
> Your real hard
> cash is still real hard cash. It is also interesting to
> note that President
> Bush (or anyone else in Washington) could not seem to come
> up with a real
> answer when pressed on how the crumbling of the big
> financial companies
> would affect Common Joe on the streets. That is because
> Joe still uses
> cash. These next few months should be interesting.
>
> Wendy
>
>
> > You know the scene in the swashbuckle, adventure, or
> war movie. The
> > protagonist is defending against overwhelming odds,
> certain doom, he draws
> > his pistol
> > and begnins shooting. Bang, bang, bang, ..,. click,
> click .... then in an
> > impulse of desperation, he throws the gun at the
> rapidly advancing enemy.
> >
> > That's what's just happened. As many,
> moi-self included, have opined,
> > those
> > thrice weekly announcements that the Fed was injecting
> $60B then $100B
> > dollars
> > was the first few rounds, then they forgot to count
> the shots as the last
> > bullets in their gun were discharged at AIG, Fannie,
> and Freddie.
> >
> > The bailout passed and signed today it the frantic,
> last ditch,
> > ineffective,
> > and panicked throwing the gun at the enemy.
> >
> > -----------------------------
> >
> > Now, financial reporting is a curious thing. The rise
> and fall of stock
> > values seems to have no basis in reality and the most
> idiotic news sends
> > the
> > numbers widely up and down. Even with no dog in the
> fight, it's amusing
> > to read
> > them in times like these. And they've gotten to
> the point that they go
> > something like this: "Stocks soar today as CEO
> finds 37 cents in the
> > pocket of his
> > spare pants." "Stocks plunge today when
> company vice president learns the
> > Wendy's coupons he was going to use for lunch have
> expired!"
> >
> > The most amusing have been the analyses that appear in
> groups of four like
> > this:
> >
> > Stocks higher on the fact that A didn't happen.
> > Stocks lower on the fact that A didn't happen.
> > Stocks higher on the fact that A did happen.
> > Stocks lower on the fact that A did happen.
> >
> > Yeah.
> >
> > Recently it has been this heinous bailout bill. Over
> the past week these
> > comments acutally appeared on some of the financial
> news sideboards:
> >
> > Stocks higher today on prediction that bailout will be
> defeated.
> > Stocks lower today on prediction that bailout will be
> defeated.
> > Stocks higher today on prediction that bailout will be
> passed.
> > Stocks lower today on prediction that bailout will be
> passed.
> >
> > Todays tag was a jewel. "Stocks sharply lower on
> economic news inspite of
> > bailout."
> >
> > Yeah.
> >
> > Fact is the economic news all broke early this morning
> and DOW was up more
> > than 300 points in the afternoon. Then the very
> moment the bailout was
> > signed
> > into law, it began to drop losing 486 points by
> closing.
> >
> > The big IF has been, what if the bailout doesn't
> "work"? Of course it
> > can't
> > "work", it is a PR job to try to keep the
> crumbling economy intact until
> > after
> > the election. And it isn't working. We
> (collectively) have now shot all
> > our
> > rounds and today we threw the gun at the enemy.
> >
> > If McCain had any savvy, which apparently he decidedly
> does NOT, he would
> > have stuck with his previous guns of 'no
> bailouts' and squarely opposed
> > this
> > bill. Then when the economy sank, he could say
> "See, I told you, I told
> > you I am
> > the maverick, I'm the only one who stood firm
> agaisnt this and now
> > seeeeeee....."
> >
> > But he didn't. Flippin' idiot!
> >
> > Now we ride out a depression or else the government
> does what it did in
> > Germany in the '30's, what Argentina did, what
> Brazil did, and what
> > recently
> > Zimbabwe did ... we keep bailing out this and that
> until the currency
> > hyper inflates
> > and, like Zimbabwe, we start issuing $100B dollar
> bills and it takes fifty
> > of
> > them to buy a loaf of bread.
> >
> > </HTML>
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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