Homestead mailing list

[william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>]

That's inflation!  Hope we don't have that, but we could.  Someone wrote a 
critique of my last post.  I don't know who and I deleted it before I thought 
to write back.  One thing I think he said was that why not charge up your 
credit card if it is going to be forgiven anyway and that people will still 
keep their mortgages because they will still have jobs.  I guess I didn't 
make myself clear.  First, the credit card companies are not going to let 
card holders off that easily.  Those who have this kind of debt can just 
figure that all they have will be gone.  About mortgages, it really won't 
make any difference if you have a job or not as wages never keep up with 
inflation.  Also closing plants and laying off workers has a domino effect, 
so others will also be out of a job.  Read what happened last time and if it 
comes, it will be much worse this time.  That is because then many people, 
even city people had gardens or some livestock and now
 city people don't .  Also more of the people then lived in rural areal or 
small towns.  Now few do.  Oh well.  Not much we can do about it.  I doubt if 
either party can change things much.  This is not just about a housing 
problem, but also about wages stagnation, easy credit and a country living 
beyond its means.

--- On Sat, 9/13/08, bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com> wrote:

From: bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Fannie/Freddie bailout question
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 5:27 PM

below is the price in marks for an ounce of gold or silver in weimar germany,
months and years noted.  Note how hyper-inflation worked, check the price (to
the right) for silver and then gold on the first line for Jan. 1919, then look
at the last line for the same ounce of each in 1923 and notice the difference
in the price in those short 4 & 1/2 years.......bobf

Wiemar, Germany Gold and Silver Prices 
German Mark prices of Silver and Gold from January 1919 to November 1923:

Jan. 1919 Silver 12 Gold 170
May. 1919 Silver 17 Gold 267
Sept. 1919 Silver 31 Gold 499

Jan. 1920 Silver 84 Gold 1,340
May 1920 Silver 60 Gold 966

Sept. 1921 Silver 80 Gold 2,175

Jan. 1922 Silver 249 Gold 3,976
May. 1922 Silver 375 Gold 6,012
Sept. 1922 Silver 1899 Gold 30,381

Jan. 1923 Silver 23,277 Gold 372,447
May. 1923 Silver 44,397 Gold 710,355
June 5, 1923 Silver 80,953 Gold 1,295,256
July 3, 1923 Silver 207,239 Gold 3,315,831
Aug. 7, 1923 Silver 4,273,874 Gold 68,382,000
Sept. 4, 1923 Silver 16,839,937 Gold 269,429,000
Oct. 2, 1923 Silver 414,484,000 Gold 6,631,749,000
Oct. 9, 1923 Silver 1,554,309,000 Gold 24,868,950,000
Oct. 16, 1923 Silver 5,319,567,000 Gold 84,969,072,000
Oct. 23, 1923 Silver 7,253,460,000 Gold 1,160,552,662,000
Oct. 30, 1923 Silver 8,419,200,000 Gold 1,347,070,000,000
Nov. 5, 1923 Silver 54,375,000,000 Gold 8,700,000,000,000
Nov. 13, 1923 Silver 108,750,000,000 Gold 17,400,000,000,000
Nov. 30, 1923 Silver 543,750,000,000 Gold 87,000,000,000,000


http://goldprice.org/bob/2006/04/wiemar-germany-gold-and-silver-prices.html



----- Original Message ----
From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:13:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Fannie/Freddie bailout question

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten started on this.  However, I think that this
will be a much different depression than the last one.  There will be much
inflation as, thanks the Nixon, we no longer have any backing for our money. 
It only works because people will accept it. It used to be backed by gold, but
no longer.  The gold backing tended to keep inflation in check as you could
always turn your money into gold, which has always had value.  Now there is
nothing to hold inflation in check.  The Fed is in between a rock and a hard
place.  If they fight inflation, they deepen the recession,  If they fight the
recession, they increase inflation.  I suspect they will do nothing.

--- On Sat, 9/13/08, bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com> wrote:

From: bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Fannie/Freddie bailout question
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 4:03 PM

Actually, when I first posted about this issue, that's what I was asking
. 
I see hyper-inflation in the near future and no way for that to be stopped. 
Most people, including people I listen to on this list like Gene , seem to
say
'it will work itself out'  (paraphrase).  I hope that's right. 
I
just don't see how we get past the hyper-inflation.  

That's why I'm worried that at least the economic part of what you are
saying might be correct.  The big difference between  us and Wiemar Germany
or
even depression-era USA is that we are now the world's largest
superpower. 
If we wish, we can take what we want from anyone.    But, most people are
going about their lives like their is nothing about which to worry.  Perhaps
people like you and I are paranoid.  

Thanks for posting your opinion, though I hope you are wrong........bobford





----- Original Message ----
From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:48:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Fannie/Freddie bailout question

I have listened to what everyone else thinks, so I guess I will tell what I
think.  Having a degree in history, I naturally look to the past.  We are not
living in 1929, or maybe 1930.  The government is now bailing out the big
players while letting all of the little guys go under.  Just as it did in
1930.  What will happen.  I think we are in for a major depression.  The
difference from the last one is that then the government was almost debt free
and the programs instituted effectively transferred debt from the private
sector
the government.  Now most of the people are further in debt, via credit cards,
than they were in 1929, but in addition, the government is also in debt.  As
the economy continues to deteriorate, most of the credit card debt will be
erased.  The mortgages will be foreclosed and banks will fail.  Those few
people who are on land and know how to raise what they eat may be alright, but
most of the people, who live in cities
are in trouble.  They do not know how to grow food and don't know how to
learn.  From those city people I have talked to I do not think they will go to
the country as they are scared to do so.  Unless something drastic is started,
and fairly soon, the results will be very bad.  Just my opinion.  I am very
willing to be proved wrong.


      
_______________________________________________
Homestead list and subscription:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead
Change your homestead list member options:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/wce1482%40yahoo.com
View the archives at:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead





      
_______________________________________________
Homestead list and subscription:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead
Change your homestead list member options:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/bobford79%40yahoo.com
View the archives at:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead


      
_______________________________________________
Homestead list and subscription:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead
Change your homestead list member options:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/wce1482%40yahoo.com
View the archives at:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead






>From wce1482 AT yahoo.com  Sat Sep 13 21:01:18 2008
Return-Path: <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
X-Original-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id CDAD04C018; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:01:18 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from web38702.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38702.mail.mud.yahoo.com
        [209.191.125.78])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E9DE54C016
        for <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:01:17 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: (qmail 63682 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2008 01:01:17 -0000
X-YMail-OSG: 
DSz7KfkVM1m3OoKjLKA8YTUHFfavCII0K2QyYvDGRrwYTqjsORSCIiwMEQYWHzqgXbv0IO7W0OtoM0OHDPRvliJP5Ij1z_KHWZSI5HeBXTpGOgTT4RzMv0dS8o_QqYzHXM2ZX81beC00Z0qFtqQTDFpc
Received: from [12.213.112.56] by web38702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP;
        Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:01:17 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218.2
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:01:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
In-Reply-To: <20080914005043.886054C016 AT lists.ibiblio.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <688004.63322.qm AT web38702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Republicans appear to be yesterday
X-BeenThere: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: wce1482 AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
List-Id: <homestead.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead>,
        <mailto:homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead>
List-Post: <mailto:homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead>,
        <mailto:homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:01:19 -0000

This could be the last election, period.  Bush has signed a law that allows 
the president to suspend all elections and declare martial law when he feel 
it necessary.  Not when there in a national emergency, but when the president 
feel it necessary.

--- On Sat, 9/13/08, Rob <becida AT comcast.net> wrote:

From: Rob <becida AT comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Republicans appear to be yesterday
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 7:23 PM

At  9/12/2008 01:27 PM,Gene GeRue wrote:


>My prediction today is that this is the last presidential campaign in
>which the old Republican guard has a chance of representing America to
>Americans and to the world.

The Republican party of today and the last 8 years is the political 
arm of Big Business, Multi National Corporations and the Oil Cartels. 
Big money.
Will that change if they win another election? I doubt it.



Rob
becida AT comcast.net 

_______________________________________________
Homestead list and subscription:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead
Change your homestead list member options:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/wce1482%40yahoo.com
View the archives at:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead






>From Clansgian AT wmconnect.com  Sat Sep 13 21:34:21 2008
Return-Path: <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com>
X-Original-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id C0AFF4C018; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:34:21 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: **
X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.1 required=5.0 testsºD_CREDIT,HTML_MESSAGE,
        MIME_QP_LONG_LINE autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2294A4C016
        for <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:34:21 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from Clansgian AT wmconnect.com
        by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id 3.c28.3ed9d840 (30737)
        for <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:34:17 -0400 
(EDT)
From: Clansgian AT wmconnect.com
Message-ID: <c28.3ed9d840.35fdc418 AT wmconnect.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:34:16 EDT
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 11501
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Fannie/Freddie bailout question
X-BeenThere: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
List-Id: <homestead.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead>,
        <mailto:homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead>
List-Post: <mailto:homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead>,
        <mailto:homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:34:21 -0000


> >As the inventory of REOs builds, banks will become amenable to holding
> payments at their original rate.

Yes, except for two things, one addressed below and the other one is that in
many cases the original paymens not only did not pay any on the principal but
didn't cover the interest on the loan.  For the banks to continue with that
loan at the original rate, they'd have to be bleeding money which they can't 
do.



Banks do not want massive

> foreclosures and they will work to avoid that condition.

No they don't.

Bear Sterns didn't want that.
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae didn't want that.
The eleven FDIC insured banks that failed this year didn't want that.
Lehman Bros doesn't want that.

But it happened anyway.



> >A dangerous condition exists if mortgagors react negatively to the
> >news that they are making payments on a loan that is greater than
> >their home is worth.

Dangerous for whom?  If a person finds themselves paying for an asset that is
worth far less than they are paying, it only makes sense to nullify that
agreement as quickly as possible and quit doing that.  The only cudgle to hold
over their heads is that their "credit" might be ruined.  For many of these
people before the bubble they would not have qualified for the loan and here 
after
the bubble they don't qualify for any such loan so it is an idle threat to
give them a bad credit score.  You have only the vague notion that it is 
somehow
immoral to renege on the loan.  I don't see it this way mainly for the
following reason:

(And this is my other thing I referenced above)  Banks don't acutally hold
many mortagages now of days.  That is, they do not lend depositors money to
homebuyers.  Rather the mortgages are converted into Mortgage Backed 
Securities
and other such instruments and sold to people who are taking a gamble that the
contracts upon which they are based are good and valid.  They take this gamble
in hopes of making a profit on it, just like any other bet.

They believed the hype about 'no bubble' and the dice didn't go that way.
They lost.

>This is an example of the power of the
> >sensationalist and negative media.

Just the opposite I'd say.  The fact that so many people bought into the
housing frenzy was the result of sensationalism and media hype.  What follows 
is
just the natural consequence of falling for that hype.   </HTML>