Homestead mailing list

["clanSkeen" <sgian AT planetc.com>]

> tvoivozhd---well, not really.  You do not know what they will do to you
> because it is a unilateral contract---something that should be outlawed
> in any responsible society.

Or looking at it another way, something no prudent person would enter into.

> tvoivozhd---if you haven't noticed, you cannot address recent Bush
> regulations on environment because there are no public hearings and
> except for some bad publicity which might affect the November election
> is also completely free to do as he pleases.  The numerous Presidential
> Regulations, unlike Congressional Regulations can be  changed daily
> according to Superbriber desires, not those of the electorate.

It ought to be fairly difficult to pass anything that infringes on anyone's
freedom ... literally it should take the proverbial "act of Congress".  I
know it doesn't.  We are living in a vast middens of regulations.  A liberal
gets into office and regulates away half of my freedoms and a conservative
gets into office and regulates away the other half.  They do NOT cancel each
other out, the concant and we are awash in them.


> tvoivozhd---I kind of like some stability in contracts---any contracts.
> Business (except credit card companies) publish and adhere to terms and
> prices when you buy anything else---why the hell should credit cards be
> an exception?

Yes, but two things about this:

1)  To my recollection, most of those credit agreements have a clause
stating that it is a one sided contract.  By signing the agreement, you
agree that they can change the terms whenever they like.  I'll open a few
more of them and take a closer look, but even the ones from really dubious
sources have pages of disclaimers.

And similar to it:

2)  Knowing that this is the nature of the beast, don't enter into any
agreements with them.  We have a couple of actual local banks here, I know
everyone hasn't.  I don't use credit but shady deals would get around and
ruin the bank so by all accounts they don't engage in them.




> tvoivozhd---he doesn't force anyone to get a credit czrd, but DOES force
> them to pay outrageous interest rates and lunatic penalties by
> prohibiting States from making various kinds of credit card fraud
> illegal and remediable by both injured individuals and State Attorneys
> General.

I'll stand corrected on this if needs be, Tvo, but my understanding is that
the current situation is like this:  States can set regulations making
certain types of contracts illegal even if both parties enter into them with
full knowledge and consent.  For example, a loan contract with a minor
cannot be enforced.  In most states if an employer gets you to sign an
agreement that you will not testify against them in court, it is not binding
and cannot be enforced.  As it stands now a credit card agreement can
contain all sorts of outrageous provisoes such as unilateral changes on a
whim and later when you have discovered that you have signed your consent to
allow them to do so, you have no recourse to claim that it is unreasonable
or was done in a way to deliberately make sure you didn't notice.

Giving the states the right to quell this is a good idea, and no mistake.
But still knowing where the ball lies before you play, don't get involved
with it.  If you need money, get a loan from the bank.  If you can't get a
loan from the bank, examine why you can't and remedy it.  If you need to
travel or buy things over the internet, use the bank card which operates
just like the credit card only you have to have the money already before you
can buy anything (not a bad practice at any rate).


>The unilateral contract and contract law in general has been
> under State jurisdiction.  It should remain there and would except for
> the fact Bush got $25,000,000 in bribes this year from MBNA, Chase
> Manhattan and the other members of the Credit Card Mafia.
>

You know how, Tvo, you are fond of saying that we don't live in the past and
the tools and situations we have in 2004 are what we have and we must make
wise use of them (to that effect)??   Credit cards USED TO be a legitimate
contract.  They aren't any more, they are a blatant scam.  No one in their
right mind would look over the provisions that they DO state and ever sign
the thing.

It is, thinks I, much like the decrying WalMart because it has helped put
the small Mon&Pop hardware store out of business.  Yes, no doubt.  But the
M&P hardware store put the village blacksmith out of business by selling the
nails and hinges and such that he used to make by hand.  Where into the past
do we want to go to park our reality?   Credit cards USED TO be a legitimate
financial tool, but then not everyone back then could get one, could they?

Would you not say it is so that if the credit card industry were tightly
regulated, all the fraud and usury squeezed out of it, that a good portion
of the people decrying how badly they are ripped off by same would find that
they couldn't get a credit card at all?

James