Corpus-Paul

["Mark D. Nanos" <nanosmd AT comcast.net>]

OK Dieter mou,
Now I get the issue that aroused your response! But I would like to explore
where our differences of view may remain. (I will leave the message below my
post, but I think the following line is sufficient for what I wish to
write.)

> Dieter:
> The reason why I can see no inconsistency between my two
> assertions is that I see the initiative for advice coming from Galatia.

Mark:
That is the point you were making, and I was thinking about a different one.
Signomi! So the initiative did not come from Jerusalem (or Antioch, et al)
to send a task-force to Galatia, as is usually contended, and thus you are
not suggesting outside influencers in Galatia. Here we agree, and I should
remember your argument indeed.

What I still see is outside influence is admitted; however it arrives
(obviously it took messengers from Jerusalem or ones from Galatia who
returned with the news), it is after interference (at least, of opinion)
from outside that Paul learns of the situation and responds in the letter we
have. Is that not influence from outside to which Paul is understood to
respond, albeit qualified in the way you have clarified?

I bring this up because I do not even see that level of outside influence
having to do with Jerusalem, although it is of course possible. But I do not
think that Paul's raising the issues of Jerusalem and Antioch implies any
direct influence, such as communication, even if in response. Mention of
cases that happened there can be accounted for by Paul's own rhetorical
approach to the situation in Galatia--so that they understand that what they
face is not a new development entirely, one that no one else could
understand, so that they can get off the hook that has resulted for them by
upholding Paul's views in the face of opposition to those views by Galatian
communal leaders.

Anyway, I do not see that either point of view provides the kind of
information for which Richard Fellows is looking to build an argument. It
could have happened at any time in his ministry, within the limits of the
information contained in the letter, esp. that it must be after the events
described in chapter 1 and 2. I do not yet see that we have anything to work
with about how Paul learned of developments in Galatia that led to writing
this letter. It seems that any hypothesis will be difficult to turn into
anything more than that. I think that is the point you were making too.

Geia sou,
Mark
-- 
Mark D. Nanos, Ph.D.
Rockhurst University
Co-Moderator
http://home.comcast.net/~nanosmd/


on 2/20/05 9:31 AM, Mitternacht Dieter at dieter.mitternacht AT teol.lu.se
wrote:

> Mark,
> 
> Your response seemed to me as though you exposed an inconsistency where
> there is none. And since I know that you are aware of my reasoning I was
> surprised. But, if that wasn't your intention, I am sorry I misunderstood.
> 
> 
>> Dieter:
>> The way I look at it, Paul did indeed express his independence, because he
>> wanted to make sure to his readers in Galatia that HE would never
>> vacillate
>> just because he found himself in a tight spot. His message of weakness and
>> crucifixion with Christ had apparently been mistaken for spinelessness.
>> Paul
>> makes sure to rebut that misconception beyond doubt. I believe that Gal
>> 1:10
>> makes sense once you view ch's 1-2 from this point of view.
> 
> Mark:
> Good point. I am not sure that they have accused Paul....
> 
> Dieter
> Please note, I did not argue that anyone "accused Paul". It is not my
> perception that the Galatian Christ-believers accused Paul (not prior to the
> letter anyway, and what heppened afterwards, I have no way of knowing).
> Quite the opposite, actually. I see the choices made by the Gentile
> believers to result from them thinking of Paul as someone who would
> understand (as I have written in your book, remember...?). The arguments for
> this I deduce from my reading of 1:10 in context.
> 
> Dieter earlier
>> However, "what is a burden" may shift from place to place. Suddenly we
>> have
>> a situation in Galatia where circumcision  of Gentile Christ-believers was
>> considered lifting a burden. And so the advice from Jerusalem may have
>> been:
>> Go ahead!
> 
> Mark:
> It is that statement that raised my criticism that you are introducing an
> outside influence, "advice from Jerusalem" to "a situation in Galatia." No?
> 
> Dieter:
> I understand that.  The reason why I can see no inconsistency between my two
> assertions is that I see the initiative for advice coming from Galatia.
> A socio-religious problem that was born out of a complicated situation in
> Galatia led the believers there to ask for advice from people they believed
> had some authority. Paul may have been difficult to reach, and Jerusalem
> (via Antioch) was not that far off. Quite a logical course of action to my
> mind, and quite in line with a tradition that attributes special wisdom to
> those that have seen and been with the "Lord". The suprise in this whole
> drama lies in Paul's reaction (as expressed in the letter), including his
> need to show his independence so fervently.
> 
> Can you see that I am not involving outsiders in a way I had eschewed in
> arguments before?
> 
> Anyway file mou, s' agapo.
> 
> Dieter 
> 
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