RTP-area local music and culture

[James Hepler <jameshepler AT yahoo.com>]

--- musicscribe AT gmail.com wrote:

> 
> 
> 
>  I was saying that it's hard enough and personal
> enough
> > that it should be appreciated, because if it
> wasn't
> > for the people making the music, there would be no
> > need for the critic, not that anyone is arguing
> that
> > there's a great need for that position in the
> first
> > place.It would be nice though for the critic to
> > realize that his job depends on having people to
> > critique.  But I suppose the garbage collector has
> a
> > love/hate relationship with refuse as well.
> 
> Fortunately like garbarge, there is no shortage of
> musicians. Perhaps
> that's because sometimes musicians think they're
> special because they
> dedicate themselves to something. And by dint of the
> perspiration on
> their brow, they should be given respect.


Well, I think that everyone who dedicates themselves
to something (positive) should get some respect, not
just musicians.  So yeah.  Convince me why I'm wrong
about that.  


> Is the hard work and sacrifice put into music any
> different than the
> sacrifices that others make? When does how hard
> someone works become
> more important than whether they're any good at it?


Good in this case is a matter of opinion, isn't it? 
This section of the indy essentially tells people not
to bother going to a show because one person says it
isn't good.

And if there is any difference in the sacrifice, it
might only be that here a persons hobby is more
important to his or her job or college career.  But
that's certainly not isolated to music.


> And doesn't the
> fact that someone puts themselves on stage mean that
> they're open to
> criticism? I've written poetry but I feel no need to
> share it. Why
> should I automatically grant respect to a musician?


Of course they're open to criticism.  But it's up to
critics as to how they want to approach it.  This
whole thread is about how many folks feel that this is
an inappropriate approach.  

Why don't you post some of your poetry up here and let
us critique it?  I may not like your poetry but I
would respect you for laying it on the line.  And if
your poetry were to be published in some sort of
compilation, I sure as hell would never tell people
not to buy the book because I didn't like your poems. 


> Doctors and
> lawyers and firemen and others make plenty of
> sacrifices as well. At
> some level, isn't all entertainment a little bit
> frivolous, and
> wouldn't we all be better off if more people worked
> at the firehouse,
> curing cancer, or building homes?


I'm pretty sure doctors and lawyers are compensated
for their work.  And firemen are universally respected
and appreciated for their work.


> But we can do what we want, and define for ourselves
> what's really
> important, and some people will make great music.
> And some people will
> waste our time.


The same applies to music writers.  But while
musicians at least hope they they are making something
good, critics apparently don't care if they waste our
time or not.


> > If it weren't hard, it wouldn't be worthwhile.  So
> > what makes the indy critic's job worthwhile?  The
> > Anthony Michael Hall-esque pat on the back they
> give
> > themselves after coming up with just the right way
> to
> > say, "Don't bother seeing this band play"?
> >
> >
> 
> Well, writing isn't any more important than music.
> We're both lousy
> punters. But I wonder how hard it is to get paid for
> music versus to
> get paid for music writing?


Why do you wonder that?  What do you mean by getting
paid for music?  

 
> > Where in that do you derive, "If you don't make it
> how
> > can you appreciate how hard it is to do? If you
> can't
> > do it how can you criticize someone who does."
> 
> If you recall my comment was I get in this kind of
> conversation with
> musicians, which I then use quotes. At no point did
> I attribute those
> remarks to you. I think that it refers back to the
> larger issue,
> apparently you don't see it that way.


You used my comments as an example of what you quoted,
so how can you say you didn't attribute those remarks
to me?

But I don't see it that way.  I don't think that you
can't appreciate what musicians do if you don't do it
yourself.  That's ludicrous.  I think it's very easy
to appreciate it and understand it, which is why it's
so weird to me that people choose to be obtuse.


> > If you'd like clarification, I'll provide it. 
> What
> > I'm saying is that by virtue of the fact that
> there
> > are people who choose making music OVER going to
> > school, people who are willing to deliver pizzas
> so
> > that work won't get in the way of their craft,
> there
> > should be some level of respect.  Even if what
> they're
> > making doesn't impress or please you.
> >
> 
> Well, I disagree. No one forces a musician to pursue
> what they do, and
> being passionate about something doesn't earn
> respect. Why should they
> get special treatment? Paul Wolfowitz seems pretty
> passionate and he's
> a huge tool.


I don't see Paul Wolfowitz as being passionate.  I
think that the fact that no one forces musicians to do
it is all the more reason to respect them.  And by
respect, I'm not talking about writers telling the
world to buy them dinner, I'm talking about a level of
respect where if you don't like them you don't mention
them at all.

Telling people to not go to a show is ACTIVE
disrespect.  It's not a lack of respect, it's on the
other side of the fence.


> Sacrifice doesn't equate with respect.
> Maybe some of
> these people SHOULD go to school, but they're too
> deluded to realize
> it.


Yeah because one dude at some
Shade-Of-It's-Former-Self weekly doesn't like them. 
 
 
> > You can criticize their music all you want.  But
> > telling people to steer clear of their shows, I
> don't
> > see how that serves any positive purpose other
> than to
> > feed a writer's ego.\
> 
> How does it feed my ego? My pocket, yes, because
> there is a section,
> and I can sell work there. I think it's a valid
> thing, and I say so.
> Just because I think some musicians suck does not
> ergo mean I don't
> like musicians. That's a fallacy.


Then the question comes up.  Given that you can sell
work with different tones to this same music section,
why choose to go negative?  What's the payoff for you?
 Why is it preferable for you to write something mean
instead of promoting a show that people should go to,
or at least poiting out the positive aspects of the
same show?


>   And frankly, all I can think
> > when I see that happening is, "Oh someone didn't
> get
> > on the guest list for that show".
> 
> yeah, it's soooooooooo hard to get on the guest
> list. I'm dying to go
> see the Beach boys and foreigner. Talk about
> strawmen.


I like both the beach boys and foreigner.  But they're
easy targets because everyone has heard of them and
most people agree that they're beyond their prime. 
Panning a walnut creek show is not the same as
advising people to avoid a local rock club.

 
> > > I agree. I'm worried, judging from this
> > > representative sample.....
> > > fortunately I get paid whether it's good or not.
> >
> > See?  You already have it better tham musicians
> do.
> 
> Just a guess, James, but I'll bet that every
> musician who recieved a
> derogatory comment got paid whether or not they
> turned in a good show.


That may be true, but that's only because this music
community is far more accomodating and respectful than
its music writers.


> In fact, just by walking on stage, they made money,
> because these
> artists (at least any of the ones I wrote about)
> have guarantees. So
> don't cry to hard for them.


Yeah, that dog's not hunting for me.

 
> > Is this part of why you seem to hate them so much?
> 
> see a therapist. You've got a projection problem.


I'm not the one who gets my jollies and beer money by
trashing people who are more willing to share their
art than I am.  


      
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