Cc-uk mailing list

[Damian Tambini <damian.tambini AT socio-legal-studies.oxford.ac.uk>]

The current plan is as follows.

We will launch an England and Wales license later this week (unless we are 
advised against this by Finers Stephens Innocent who are kindly now reviewing 
it), and assuming that our HTML process and the international commons website 
can manage this).

We will note that a license for CC Scotland will be launched in the near 
future in publicity.

The international Creative Commons website where the licenses are stored will 
have a union flag as an option. As in the case of Spanish and Catalonian 
licenses, clicking on the Union Flag will offer a drop down menu including 
E+W and Scotland. Linking to licenses when they are available.

This is the solution of the International Creative Commons team.

Best wishes, thanks again for all your positive comment and participation. 

Best regards


Damian


In message <1105780444.41e8dedc97a43 AT staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Hector MacQueen 
<hector.macqueen AT ed.ac.uk> writes:
> I'm sorry that I'm only catching up with this now - I've been engaged on 
> other
> business.  It's clear that the licence to be launched on the 19th can only 
> be
> an England & Wales one, there being no such thing as a jurisdiction or a 
> law of
> the UK.  I would strongly support the suggestion that, to avoid accusations 
> of
> legal illiteracy which will seriously undermine the project's credibility 
> here
> (and here I mean the UK), it be launched for E&W specifically, with the 
> promise
> of a Scottish version (and indeed a Northern Ireland one) in the reasonably 
> near
> future.
> 
> Hector
> 
> --
> Hector L MacQueen
> Professor of Private Law
> Director, AHRB Research Centre Intellectual Property and Technology Law
> Edinburgh Law School
> University of Edinburgh
> Edinburgh EH8 9YL
> UK
> Tel: (0)131-650-2060; Fax: (0)131-662-6317
> 
> 
> Quoting Paul Miller <P.Miller AT hull.ac.uk>:
> 
> > >From the discussion I have observed on this list, and my understanding 
> > >(such
> > as
> > it is) of the very different legal frameworks in England & Wales as 
> > opposed
> > to
> > Scotland, I would be extremely keen to see a solution developed such as 
> > that
> > which appeared to be proposed in the earlier exchanges between Jonathan 
> > and
> > the
> > team in Oxford.
> >
> > The current licence is good, and works for England and Wales. Launch it as
> > such,
> > and allow us to use it, rather than diminishing its worth by pretending 
> > it's
> > something that it's not (a UK licence). Work in parallel towards a 
> > Scottish
> > licence, and a Northern Irish one. These need not come out next week along
> > with
> > the English & Welsh licence, so long as everyone is clear that they're
> > coming.
> > Further, work TOGETHER towards an understanding of how these licences fit
> > together, and offer guidance on how a UK-wide activity might licence 
> > content
> > (presumably, as is already done for other contracts, by simply picking 
> > ONE,
> > and
> > saying that the content is licenced under Scots law, English law, or
> > whatever).
> >
> >
> > I would, of course, be interested in seeing the views of both the Oxford 
> > team
> > and the BBC Creative Archive team, both of whom are closer to this and 
> > more
> > versed in the legal intricacies than I.
> >
> > I am Director of a UK-spanning activity and would, in most cases, pick 
> > (any)
> > one
> > of the licences. However, members of the organisation have differing
> > geographical remits with some covering only Scotland, only England, etc. I
> > would not currently feel able to recommend or require that 
> > Scotland-specific
> > activities taking place under the broader CIE umbrella be licenced under
> > English law.
> >
> > If there is anything that the CIE *can* do to assist in moving towards
> > resolution here, please do not hesitate to ask.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr Paul Miller
> > Director, Common Information Environment
> >
> > e: p.miller AT jisc.ac.uk       m: +44 (7779) 669542
> > w: www.common-info.org.uk/   aim/ iChat/ Yahoo!: ciedirector
> >
> > Participate in the "CIE Thoughts" Blog at www.common-info.org.uk/thoughts/
> > Keep current with the "CIE News" Blog at  www.common-info.org.uk/news/
> >
> >
> > Quoting Jonathan Mitchell <website3 AT jonathanmitchell.info>:
> >
> > > This is the latest exchange of messages between Christiane Asschenfeldt 
> > > of
> > > International Creative Commons and myself. As Damien Tambini agreed some
> > > time ago that he would copy Professor MacQueen and I in on further 
> > > messages
> > > between his team and ICC, and as I have had no such messages, I have to
> > > assume that she is doing this entirely off her own bat without any input
> > > from the Oxford team- she has certainly had none from here that supports
> > her
> > > decision.
> > >
> > > My apologies to English readers for once more banging on about this, but
> > > this has the capability of damaging next Wednesday's launch for no 
> > > benefit
> > > whatsoever and thus affecting CC in England as well.
> > >
> > > Jonathan Mitchell
> > >
> > > ------ Forwarded Message
> > > From: Jonathan Mitchell <jonathanmitchell AT mac.com>
> > > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:12:42 +0000
> > > To: Christiane Asschenfeldt <christiane AT creativecommons.org>
> > > Cc: <roland AT creativecommons.org>
> > > Subject: Re: CC Scotland
> > >
> > > I feel like tearing my hair out! Do you and the Californians genuinely 
> > > have
> > > no understanding that Scotland is a different jurisdiction and indeed 
> > > is a
> > > different national culture, or of the harm you are potentially doing to
> > > goodwill? Think:-
> > >
> > > 1. How could it seriously be suggested that a licence which has been
> > > developed for one jurisdiction, England and Wales, and which confers
> > > exclusive jurisdiction on the courts of England and Wales, could be put
> > > forward for use in another jurisdiction, Scotland? The draft licence 
> > > worked
> > > up in Oxford states:
> > > > This Licence shall be governed by the law of England and Wales and the
> > > parties
> > > > irrevocably submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Courts of 
> > > > England
> > > and
> > > > Wales.
> > > What this means is that if anyone in Scotland used this (which they 
> > > won't)
> > > they would be regulated by the laws and courts of the next-door country!
> > > The BBC can use such a license, because it is a single organisation 
> > > based
> > in
> > > the English jurisdiction. Individuals in Scotland can't. So your takeup 
> > > in
> > > Scotland will be zero.
> > >
> > > 2. The CC-EW team have agreed. On 6 December, Prodromos Tsiavos wrote:
> > > > Jonathan’s point is valid: the CC licences that explicitly refer to 
> > > > the
> > > > jurisdiction of England and Wales will be henceforth called CC-EW. I 
> > > > have
> > > made
> > > > the respective changes and am attaching the relevant draft. I will 
> > > > also
> > > raise
> > > > the issue during the phone conference on the 8th of December and since
> > the
> > > iCC
> > > > seem to be of the same opinion, we should consider the issue resolved
> > > So what you propose goes back on a consensus decision among English and
> > > Scottish participants.
> > >
> > > 3. You cannot publicise such a license in Scotland or hope that it will
> > > receive anything other than justified criticism, when if you were to
> > release
> > > it as what it is, an EW license, there would be no such criticism. This 
> > > is
> > > totally unnecessary. In fact it is quite barmy.
> > >
> > > Would you like to telephone me to discuss this some time this weekend
> > before
> > > your egg hits the fan? Meanwhile I will copy this exchange (I have not
> > > copied any previous correspondence) to the mailing list. The English
> > > participants have also a right to know of these foolish decisions.
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Mitchell QC
> > >
> > > Work telephone/mobile: 0773 963 9343
> > > Faculty internal mobile extension: 3349
> > > Fax to laptop: 0870 124 8222
> > > Business address: Advocates Library, Parliament House, Edinburgh EH1 
> > > 1RF,
> > > Scotland
> > > DX ED 549302, Edinburgh 36; Legal Post LP3, Edinburgh 10
> > >
> > > Website: http://www.jonathanmitchell.info
> > >
> > > Home address: 30 Warriston Crescent, Edinburgh EH3 5LB, Scotland.
> > > Home telephone: 0131 557 0854.
> > >
> > > This message, and any attachments, may contain legally privileged 
> > > material
> > > and are confidential to the intended recipient.
> > >
> > > Please note that my clerk is Iain Murray; tel. 0131 260 5697; fax 0131 
> > > 220
> > > 2654; e-mail murraystable AT advocates.org.uk . Instructions as counsel 
> > > should
> > > unless otherwise notified be channelled via him.
> > >
> > > > From: Christiane Asschenfeldt <christiane AT creativecommons.org>
> > > > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:29:54 -0800
> > > > To: jonathanmitchell AT mac.com
> > > > Cc: roland AT creativecommons.org, christiane AT creativecommons.org
> > > > Subject: CC Scotland
> > > >
> > > > Dear Jonathan,
> > > >
> > > > thanks again for writing, and for your most valuable contribution to 
> > > > the
> > > > Creative Commons project. We appreciate your involvement very much.
> > > >
> > > > The first deadline - which was set for the UK as a whole - is on 
> > > > January
> > > > 19th. After due reflection and discussion, in Berlin and California, 
> > > > it
> > > > looks as if we have to stick to the original schedule for the moment 
> > > > and
> > > > come up with a single UK licence for this date, i.e. one licence that
> > > > would include all of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. 
> > > > One
> > > > among many reasons for this is our collaboration with the BBC under 
> > > > one
> > > > single umbrella.
> > > >
> > > > However, as this is only the next mile stone, and as the licences will
> > > > soon be revised, we would love to be able to work with you on a 
> > > > Scottish
> > > > version in the weeks to come. We envisage publication of such a 
> > > > specific
> > > > version by March or April.
> > > >
> > > > We shall be in touch in due course to incorporate your recent 
> > > > comments.
> > > >
> > > > Best, Christiane
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------ End of Forwarded Message
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr Paul Miller
> > Director, Common Information Environment
> >
> > e: p.miller AT jisc.ac.uk       m: +44 (7779) 669542
> > w: www.common-info.org.uk/   aim/ iChat/ Yahoo!: ciedirector
> >
> > Participate in the "CIE Thoughts" Blog at www.common-info.org.uk/thoughts/
> > Keep current with the "CIE News" Blog at  www.common-info.org.uk/news/
> > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Damian Tambini
Oxford University Programme in Comparative Media Law and Policy
Manor Road, Oxford
01865 284251   http://pcmlp.socleg.ox.ac.uk