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  • From: Jonas Öberg <jonas AT creativecommons.org>
  • To: Mathias Klang <klangm AT chalmers.se>
  • Cc: "<cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org>" <cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI
  • Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:32:19 +0200

Thanks everyone for your input so far -- this is indeed very useful.
What I'd want to achieve is to make use of the extensive network of
contacts that EDRI has in the commission and parliament, as well as
their overview of current issues. We do not want to duplicate efforts,
but we might want to join in where it's relevant to advance our
mission. If this can be achieved through becoming an observer of EDRI,
then this would seem like the most logical approach to me.

As Gisle, Mathias and Federico points out, engaging in a deeper level
that broadens the scope of Creative Commons, would be part of a larger
discussion and is not a decision to be taken without due
consideration. I know there are affiliates who would want Creative
Commons to move in such a direction, but it's far from certain that we
ever would.

In terms of what policy work we can do, I believe that even informing
about Creative Commons, which is clearly within the merit of the
organisation, raises important questions about creativity and
copyright in the digital age and forces people to think about them.
Organising seminars and other events around Creative Commons that
attract policy makers might make just as large an impact as engaging
in direct lobbying.


Best,

Jonas Öberg, Regional Project Manager - Europe
Creative Commons
Phone: +46 31 7802161



On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Mathias Klang <klangm AT chalmers.se> wrote:
> Good points Gisle.
>
>  I believe that it is possible to balance CCs core values and goals while
> maintaining a working relationship with other organizations. Implicit in
> the goal (for me) to provide copyright licenses are the facts that (1) we
> are not anti copyright (2) we want to aid people overcome some elements of
> copyright access.
>
> I am happy to work with EDRI in the same way I am happy to work with Free
> Software Foundation, Wikipedia, museums, archives and libraries. I would be
> uncomfortable attempting to work with someone striving to ban copyright and
> we do not have (as an organization) legitimacy outside the wider area of
> copyright licenses but these limitations taken into consideration: I am for
> the principle of non profits working together.
>
> Mathias
>
>
> =====
> Mathias Klang
> +46705432213
> http://digital-rights.net
> Twitter @klang67
>
> On 27 Mar 2012, at 14:46, Gisle Hannemyr <gisle AT ifi.uio.no> wrote:
>
>> On 27.03.2012 10:15, Jonas Öberg wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Cathy and I had a brief meeting with Marie Humeau from EDRI yesterday
>>> to talk about what they're doing in relation to what's on the CC
>>> agenda and what's current in the European Parliament. It was a very
>>> informal meeting that we'll follow up at some later point with Joe
>>> McMcNamee. We did notice during the discussion that we do have some
>>> overlap between EDRI members and CC affiliates: Internet Society
>>> Bulgaria, Iuridicum Remedium, Metamorphosis, SOIT and FSFI. I might
>>> have missed some.
>>
>> FYI: Electronic Frontier Norway (EFN) - Norway is an EDRI affiliate
>> and the president of EFN, Thomas Gramstad, is also a member of the
>> CC Norway board.
>>
>>> What are peoples perception of EDRI and the work that they're doing?
>>> Would it for instance be useful for CC to engage in some way with
>>> EDRI? As you likely know, EDRI is engaged with digital rights
>>> generally of which CC licensing is one part of interest, but where
>>> their work is much broader than this. It's not clear what the
>>> relations could be, or if it's even possible for CC to engage in any
>>> way, but your thoughts would be appreciated.
>>
>> Personally, I think that Creative Commons Europe should *not* be
>> actively involved with EDRI or similar "digital rights" advocacy
>> groups beyond working with them to broaden the acceptance for
>> CC and CC licensing.
>>
>> Since all those that have responded so far (Alek, Fedrico, Mathias,
>> Prodromos, Veni) has been very much in favour of broader involvement
>> with EDRI, I hate to be the grumpy old man. But I really think we
>> need to be careful about this.  Here's why:
>>
>> Creative Commons' mission is making CC licenses available to the
>> public, educating the public about the use of these licenses, and
>> making sure the quality of those licenses hold up in court under
>> *current* copyright law.
>>
>> While it is possible that many CC supporters are in favour of
>> copyright reform, unlimited freedom of speech, broad digital
>> rights, piracy (as defined by the European pirate parties), and
>> likewise opposed to things like the DRD, PIPA, SOPA, ACTA and ITU
>> style Internet governance - all those issues are strictly outside
>> the scope of CC.  Organizations like EDRI exists to coordinate
>> activism around these issues, and individuals (including
>> CC officers) who feel these are important issues should of course
>> consider working for/with EDRI, etc. - but *only* as individuals.
>>
>> As public lead of CC Norway, I would hate to represent CC in
>> a room full of artists, and being asked to explain *why*
>> CC Europe is cooperating with EDRI in opposing ACTA.  I think
>> the only thing I would be able to say in such a situation
>> would be: "Sorry, but I was invited to talk about how CC licensing
>> can work for artists, so I am not going to say anything about
>> ACTA.
>>
>> AFAIK, CC International, as such, does *not* have a position for
>> or against things like the DRD, PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, ITU style
>> Internet governance, etc. - nor should CC International take
>> such positions.
>>
>> If CC Europe plans to change this, and *as an organisation*
>> cooperate with various cyber-activist groups on issues *other*
>> than licensing, then CC Europe will move into a territory
>> where our core activity (to provide licenses for free culture)
>> will be associated with political agendas that I fear some
>> CC supporters (will myself at least) cannot support, nor want
>> to be associated with.
>> --
>> - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
>> ========================================================================
>>    "Don't follow leaders // Watch the parkin' meters" - Bob Dylan
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