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- From: Teresa Nobre <teresaraposonobre AT gmail.com>
- To: Jonas Öberg <jonas AT creativecommons.org>
- Cc: cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI
- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:45:57 +0100
Dear all,
I don’t defend that CC should lobby as a "piracy advocacy group" does or that CC should have a position about every copyright law, but I believe CC should not be silent when other rights (freedom, information, freedom of speech, education, etc), more valuable than copyrights, are at stake. So, I share the opinion that CC should not hesitate in making a statement (not necessarily actively engaging in the debates) in the following situations:
1) Criminalisation of non-commercial uses of copyrighted works
2) Restrictions to the Internet grounded on copyright violations
3) Copyright Limits/Exceptions
2012/3/31 Jonas Öberg <jonas AT creativecommons.org>:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I think it's good that this discussion is had -- and I support Gisle
> in that CC should not extent beyond its merits and engage generally in
> these rights debates. As was pointed out by Diane, CC is not an
> advocacy organisation and our work focus on our tools. However,
> providing technical information to policymakers on how proposed
> policies would work with our tools seems like a useful activity,
> especially when those policies in one way or another interfere with
> our tools or the vision of Creative Commons.
>
> So the question at hand is: what is the relation between SOPA (as one
> example) and our tools? Thoughts on this would be appreciated, as
> there seems to be diverging views on this.
>
>
> Jonas Öberg, Regional Project Manager - Europe
> Creative Commons
> Phone: +46 31 7802161
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Gisle Hannemyr <gisle AT ifi.uio.no> wrote:
>> On 29.03.2012 09:58, Alek Tarkowski wrote:
>>> I haven't seen a good "ideological" discussion on the goals of CC in a
>>> while, and it seems it is needed.
>>
>> Until now, I thought that the goals of CC was pretty
>> well defined and not open for discussion.
>>
>> I joined CC in the belief that the mission of CC is making CC licenses
>> and tools available to the public, educating the public about the
>> use of these licenses, and making sure the quality of those licenses and
>> tools hold up in court under current copyright law.
>>
>> I hope this is still the case, and not something we need to
>> discuss.
>>
>>> Because for every artist you mention,
>>> where CC gains (possibly) credibility through a neutral stance (though
>>> to be honest, why "a room full of artists" would have a problem with
>>> CC's involvement against ACTA?),
>>
>> Sigh. I had hoped to avoid a discussion about the content on ACTA
>> on this list, but here goes ...
>>
>> "ACTA" are apperently different things to different people. (IMHO,
>> most of the descriptions of "ACTA" you'll find on the Internet are
>> works of fiction.)
>>
>> I've read carefully through the final and official text of ACTA,
>> which has been available online since December 3, 2010,
>> http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/html/147079.htm
>>
>> I cannot find *anything* in ACTA that will interfere with the function
>> of CC's licenses and tools, or prevent them from being used.
>> Therefore I can't see *why* CC need to take a position on ACTA.
>>
>> On the other hand, ACTA proposes (Article 23) that criminal procedures
>> and penalties should be used against:
>> "rights piracy on a commercial scale"
>> Now, I know a number of succesful artists who belive that rights piracy
>> on a commercial scale are hurting them, and that legislation that
>> imposes criminal procedures and penalties on such acts is a good
>> thing for artists. As a writer and photographer, I happen to
>> agree with them.
>>
>> When you ask "though to be honest, why 'a room full of artists'
>> would have a problem with CC's involvement against ACTA?" - do
>> you mean to say that you really do not understand why artists
>> may think that an organisation that lobbies against legislation
>> to criminalize "rights piracy on a commercial scale" may not be
>> well aligned with their own interests as commercial artists?
>>
>> If your answer is "yes" - I would be interested to hear your
>> reasoning.
>>
>>> Finally, CC headquarters were involved in anti-PIPA/SOPA activities in
>>> the US, which again suggests, that it would be good to have a clear
>>> policy on this, instead of what seem to be particular decisions.
>>
>> I was not aware of this.
>>
>> After looking, I find that there some anti-SOPA campaigning
>> posted on creativecommons.org by at least one senior officer
>> (example: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/30375 )
>> by CC vice president Mike Linksvayer).
>>
>> I would not have any problem with Mike posting this on his
>> personal blog (gondwanaland.com) - but I honestly think that
>> this posting is completely out of place on creativecommons.org.
>>
>> Again. There is nothing in SOPA that will interfere with
>> the function of CC's licenses and tools, or prevent them from
>> being used, so CC should IMHO not express any opinion about
>> SOPA.
>>
>> I hope this was just a fluke. If the CC project is going to mutate
>> into just another piracy advocacy group (e.g. work towards the same
>> goals as groups such as EFF and EDRI), I can no longer in good faith
>> recommend the adoption of CC licenses and tools to other creators.
>>
>> If CC moves in this direction, I think CC will alinate major parts
>> of the creative community and only remain popular with the
>> pirate party/kopime crowd - whose ideology I think can be summed up
>> in the idea that it is copying, not creating, that is the major
>> component in culture. As you probably have guessed, I do not
>> share that ideology.
>> --
>> - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
>> ========================================================================
>> "Don't follow leaders // Watch the parkin' meters" - Bob Dylan
>> _______________________________________________
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>> CC-Europe AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-europe
> _______________________________________________
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-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI
, (continued)
- Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI, Bogdan Manolea, 03/27/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Gisle Hannemyr, 03/27/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Federico Morando, 03/27/2012
- Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI, John Hendrik Weitzmann, 03/29/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Mathias Klang, 03/27/2012
- Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI, Jonas Öberg, 03/27/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Alek Tarkowski, 03/29/2012
- Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI, Diane Cabell, 03/29/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Gisle Hannemyr, 03/31/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Jonas Öberg, 03/31/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Teresa Nobre, 03/31/2012
- Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI, Gisle Hannemyr, 03/31/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Teresa Nobre, 03/31/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Jonas Öberg, 03/31/2012
-
Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI,
Federico Morando, 03/27/2012
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