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  • From: Jonas Öberg <jonas AT creativecommons.org>
  • To: Gisle Hannemyr <gisle AT ifi.uio.no>
  • Cc: cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI
  • Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:41:13 +0200

Hi everyone,

I think it's good that this discussion is had -- and I support Gisle
in that CC should not extent beyond its merits and engage generally in
these rights debates. As was pointed out by Diane, CC is not an
advocacy organisation and our work focus on our tools. However,
providing technical information to policymakers on how proposed
policies would work with our tools seems like a useful activity,
especially when those policies in one way or another interfere with
our tools or the vision of Creative Commons.

So the question at hand is: what is the relation between SOPA (as one
example) and our tools? Thoughts on this would be appreciated, as
there seems to be diverging views on this.


Jonas Öberg, Regional Project Manager - Europe
Creative Commons
Phone: +46 31 7802161



On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Gisle Hannemyr <gisle AT ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> On 29.03.2012 09:58, Alek Tarkowski wrote:
>> I haven't seen a good "ideological" discussion on the goals of CC in a
>> while, and it seems it is needed.
>
> Until now, I thought that the goals of CC was pretty
> well defined and not open for discussion.
>
> I joined CC in the belief that the mission of CC is making CC licenses
> and tools available to the public, educating the public about the
> use of these licenses, and making sure the quality of those licenses and
> tools hold up in court under current copyright law.
>
> I hope this is still the case, and not something we need to
> discuss.
>
>> Because for every artist you mention,
>> where CC gains (possibly) credibility through a neutral stance (though
>> to be honest, why "a room full of artists" would have a problem with
>> CC's involvement against ACTA?),
>
> Sigh.  I had hoped to avoid a discussion about the content on ACTA
> on this list, but here goes ...
>
> "ACTA" are apperently different things to different people.  (IMHO,
> most of the descriptions of "ACTA" you'll find on the Internet are
> works of fiction.)
>
> I've read carefully through the final and official text of ACTA,
> which has been available online since December 3, 2010,
>   http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/html/147079.htm
>
> I cannot find *anything* in ACTA that will interfere with the function
> of CC's licenses and tools, or prevent them from being used.
> Therefore I can't see *why* CC need to take a position on ACTA.
>
> On the other hand, ACTA proposes (Article 23) that criminal procedures
> and penalties should be used against:
>  "rights piracy on a commercial scale"
> Now, I know a number of succesful artists who belive that rights piracy
> on a commercial scale are hurting them, and that legislation that
> imposes criminal procedures and penalties on such acts is a good
> thing for artists.  As a writer and photographer, I happen to
> agree with them.
>
> When you ask "though to be honest, why 'a room full of artists'
> would have a problem with CC's involvement against ACTA?" - do
> you mean to say that you really do not understand why artists
> may think that an organisation that lobbies against legislation
> to criminalize "rights piracy on a commercial scale" may not be
> well aligned with their own interests as commercial artists?
>
> If your answer is "yes" - I would be interested to hear your
> reasoning.
>
>> Finally, CC headquarters were involved in anti-PIPA/SOPA activities in
>> the US, which again suggests, that it would be good to have a clear
>> policy on this, instead of what seem to be particular decisions.
>
> I was not aware of this.
>
> After looking, I find that there some anti-SOPA campaigning
> posted on creativecommons.org by at least one senior officer
> (example:  http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/30375 )
> by CC vice president Mike Linksvayer).
>
> I would not have any problem with Mike posting this on his
> personal blog (gondwanaland.com) - but I honestly think that
> this posting is completely out of place on creativecommons.org.
>
> Again.  There is nothing in SOPA that will interfere with
> the function of CC's licenses and tools, or prevent them from
> being used, so CC should IMHO not express any opinion about
> SOPA.
>
> I hope this was just a fluke.  If the CC project is going to mutate
> into just another piracy advocacy group (e.g. work towards the same
> goals as groups such as EFF and EDRI), I can no longer in good faith
> recommend the adoption of CC licenses and tools to other creators.
>
> If CC moves in this direction, I think CC will alinate major parts
> of the creative community and only remain popular with the
> pirate party/kopime crowd - whose ideology I think can be summed up
> in the idea that it is copying, not creating, that is the major
> component in culture.  As you probably have guessed, I do not
> share that ideology.
> --
> - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
> ========================================================================
>    "Don't follow leaders // Watch the parkin' meters" - Bob Dylan
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