Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Timothy Lawson <lostntym8 AT hotmail.com>]

Dear Bryant,

    The information you present is interesting but seemingly not directly related to the point I made that κύριος ο θεός by its poor grammatical construction which also appears in the NT text. This may be a possible indication that YHVH has been removed from the Greek text of the LXX.

T. Scott Lawson
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 9, 2013, at 8:20 AM, "Rev. Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net> wrote:

This is a repost due to technological gliches. Ok'd per moderators.

Dear Scott,

Rolf has made in past posts claims that some NT documents have the Tetragrammaton in the text. Rolf has not produced, to my knowledge, the sources or links for those claims to be verified. It seems that the reason Stephen is asking for the sources to be not the LXX is that by the 4th Century AD the LXX and the NT were combined, e.g. Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus, Vaticanus, etc. Thus, the LXX was considered as part of the Christian Scriptures even though it is the translation of the Tanakh by Jewish translators from Alexandria. If I remember correctly, the LXX in some spots is a witness to an earlier text of the Tanakh predating the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Now, with reference to the the use of κύριος (KURIOS). It is used quited frequently for the Tetragrammaton in the LXX. Yet it is also used in places like Exodus 3:14, Deuteronomy 32:49; and passages in Isaiah 40-60 where Ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) is used to translate אֲנִי֙ ('ani), אָנֹכִ֥י ('anoki), etc. In Isaiah 40-61,  κύριος (KURIOS) and Ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) are also juxtaposed with each other (See Below).

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

Exodus    3:14 LXX - Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν (EGW EIMI hO WN) is found to translate MT אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה ('EHYEH), but Ὁ ὢν (hO WN - 2X) is used to translate MT אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה ('EHYEH - 2x)

Deut.        32:39 כִּ֣י אֲנִ֤י אֲנִי֙ ה֔וּא (ki ani ani hu) = ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι (ki ani ani hu)

Isaiah         41:4  אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה... אֲנִי־הֽוּא׃(ani YHWH...ani hu) = ἐγὼ θεὸςc ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW QEOS...EGW EIMI)
                    41:10 כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ (ki ani eloheyka) = ἐγὼ γάρ εἰμι ὁ θεός σου (EGW GAR EIMI hO QEOS SOU)
                    41:13 כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ (ki ani eloheyka) = ὅτι ἐγὼ ὁ θεός σου (hOTI EGW hO QEOS SOU)

                    41:17 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)
                    42:6 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)
                    42:8 אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה ה֣וּא (ani YHWH hu) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

                    43:3 כִּ֗י אֲנִי֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ (ki ani YHWH eloheyka) = ὅτι ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός σου (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS SOU)

                    43:10 נְאֻם־יְהוָ֔הcכִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י ה֔וּא (neum-YHWH...ki-ani hu) = κύριος ὁ θεός... ἐγώ

---

From: bjwvmw AT com-pair.net
To: lostntym8 AT hotmail.com; sshead.email AT gmail.com; rolf.furuli AT sf-nett.no; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: G. Geroux and the Name
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 08:20:29 -0700

This is a repost due to technological gliches. Ok'd per moderators.

 

Dear Scott,

 

Rolf has made in past posts claims that some NT documents have the Tetragrammaton in the text. Rolf has not produced, to my knowledge, the sources or links for those claims to be verified. It seems that the reason Stephen is asking for the sources to be not the LXX is that by the 4th Century AD the LXX and the NT were combined, e.g. Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus, Vaticanus, etc. Thus, the LXX was considered as part of the Christian Scriptures even though it is the translation of the Tanakh by Jewish translators from Alexandria. If I remember correctly, the LXX in some spots is a witness to an earlier text of the Tanakh predating the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

Now, with reference to the the use of κύριος (KURIOS). It is used quited frequently for the Tetragrammaton in the LXX. Yet it is also used in places like Exodus 3:14, Deuteronomy 32:49; and passages in Isaiah 40-60 where Ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) is used to translate אֲנִי֙ ('ani), אָנֹכִ֥י ('anoki), etc. In Isaiah 40-61,  κύριος (KURIOS) and Ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) are also juxtaposed with each other (See Below).

 

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

 

Exodus    3:14 LXX - Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν (EGW EIMI hO WN) is found to translate MT אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה ('EHYEH), but Ὁ ὢν (hO WN - 2X) is used to translate MT אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה ('EHYEH - 2x)

Deut.        32:39 כִּ֣י אֲנִ֤י אֲנִי֙ ה֔וּא (ki ani ani hu) = ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι (ki ani ani hu)

Isaiah         41:4  אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה... אֲנִי־הֽוּא׃(ani YHWH...ani hu) = ἐγὼ θεὸςc ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW QEOS...EGW EIMI)
                    41:10 כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ (ki ani eloheyka) = ἐγὼ γάρ εἰμι ὁ θεός σου (EGW GAR EIMI hO QEOS SOU)
                    41:13 כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ (ki ani eloheyka) = ὅτι ἐγὼ ὁ θεός σου (hOTI EGW hO QEOS SOU)

                    41:17 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)
                    42:6 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)
                    42:8 אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה ה֣וּא (ani YHWH hu) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

                    43:3 כִּ֗י אֲנִי֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ (ki ani YHWH eloheyka) = ὅτι ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός σου (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS SOU)

                    43:10 נְאֻם־יְהוָ֔הcכִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י ה֔וּא (neum-YHWH...ki-ani hu) = κύριος ὁ θεός... ἐγώ εἰμι (KURIOS hO QEOS...EGW EIMI)

                    43:11 אָנֹכִ֥י אָנֹכִ֖י יְהוָ֑ה (anoki anoki YHWH) = ἐγὼ ὁ θεός (EGW hO QEOS)

                    43:12 י נְאֻם־יְהוָ֖ה וַֽאֲנִי־אֵֽל (neum-YHWH weani al-El) = ἐγὼ ὁ θεός (EGW hO QEOS)
                    43:15 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεὸς (EGW hO QEOS)

                    43:25 אָנֹכִ֨י אָנֹכִ֥י ה֛וּא (anoki anoki hu) = ἐγώ εἰμι ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI EGW EIMI)

45:3 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

45:5 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

45:6 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

45:7 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

45:8 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός (EGW KURIOS hO QEOS)

45:19 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγώ εἰμι ἐγώ εἰμι κύριος λαλῶν (EGW EIMI EGW EIMI KURIOS hO LALWN)

45:21 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ ὁ θεός (EGW hO QEOS)
45:22 אֲנִי־אֵ֖ל (ani el) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεὸς (EGW EIMI hO QEOS)
46:4 אֲנִ֣י ה֔וּא (ani hu) = ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI)
46:9 אָנֹכִ֥י אֵל֙ (anoki el) = ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ θεός (EGW EIMI Ho QEOS)
47:8 אֲנִי (ani) = ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) (NOTE: NIV "I am, and there is none beside me.")
47:10 רֹאָ֔נִי i (roani) = ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI)
48:12 אֲנִי־הוּא֙ אֲנִ֣י רִאשֹׁ֔ון אַ֖ף אֲנִ֥י אַחֲרֹֽון (ani hu ani rishon ani acharon) = ἐγώ εἰμι πρῶτος, καὶ ἐγώ εἰμι εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (EGW EIMI PRWTOS, KAI EGW EIMI EIS TON AIWNA)

48:15 אֲנִ֥י אֲנִ֛י (ani ani) = ἐγὼ, … ἐγὼ...( EGW...EGW...)

48:17 אֲנִ֨י יְהוָ֤ה אֱלֹהֶ֙יךָ֙ (ani YHWH eloheyka) = Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ θεός σου (EGW KURIOS)

49:23 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος (EGW KURIOS)

49:26 אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ κύριος (EGW KURIOS)

51:12 אָנֹכִ֧י אָנֹכִ֛י ה֖וּא (anoki anoki hu) = ἐγώ εἰμι ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI EGW EIMI)

51:15 כִּ֗י אֲנִי֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ (anoki YHWH eloheyka) = ἐγὼ ὁ θεός σου (EGW hO QEOS SOU)

60:16 כִּ֣י אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ מֹֽושִׁיעֵ֔ךְ (ki-ani YHWH Moshiak) = ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ σῴζων σε (EGW KURIOS hO SWZWN SE)

                    61:8 כִּ֣י אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה֙ (ki-ani YHWH) = ἐγὼ γάρ εἰμι κύριος (EGW GAR EIMI KURIOS)

1. ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) is used 20x (17x in Isaiah) with several verses having double use for emphasis.

2. You will note that אֲנִ֣י ה֔וּא (ani hu), אָנֹכִ֨י (anoki), אֲנִי֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ (ani YHWH eloheyka), אֲנִ֤י יְהוָה (ani YHWH),אֲנִי־אֵ֖ל (ani-EL) are all used interchangeably along with אֲדֹנָ֣י יֱהוִ֔ה (adonai YHWH) etc.

3. The LXX uses ἐγὼ ὁ θεός (EGW hO QEOS), ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ θεός (EGW EIMI hO QEOS), ἐγώ εἰμι ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI EGW EIMI), ἐγὼ ὁ κύριος (EGW hO KURIOS), etc. interchangeably, BUT ἐγώ εἰμι (EGW EIMI) is used here more than anywhere else with reference to God = יֱהוִ֔ה (YHWH),אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ (eloheyka), אֲדֹנָ֣י (adonai), θεός (QEOS), κύριος (KURIOS), etc.