Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Shelly Saya <soshellybelle AT yahoo.com>]

Hi all.  I just joined.
 
OK.  To be honest, I have always been interested in Judaism but I have always 
had problems believing in some of the doctrine, like most religions.  :P
 
I was raised Christian, like most people I have known throughout my life, 
here in Detroit, MI.  I have not believed in the Christian church's teachings 
since I was 18, such as the trinity, the divinity of Christ, etc.  But I 
still enjoy reading my bible.  I like to read the Catholic bible because of 
the apocrypha (which means more ancient books to read :P).  I realize this is 
not a religious forum but feel this is important in my introduction.  The 
bible is not just a list of beliefs in a religion but also a historical book. 
 And you might want to know where I'm coming from since introductions are 
encouraged.
 
When I read these books, I try to think as the author might, considering that 
culture at the time the book was written.  For example, there is a big 
difference between the book of Judges and the books of Mattew or Acts.  
Different time and slightly different thinking in people.  Well, I would 
think, anyway.  :P
 
What I really want from all of you are your opinions on the culture at the 
time.  From what I've read in the old testament, I do think they were rather 
barbaric, inconsiderate and incompassionate to women and livestock alike.  
But they were very, very clean compared to neighboring civilizations.
 
A few of my questions are: Do you think there was a correlation between the 
two, the need for them to be so clean and also their disregard for women, 
animals, neighboring nations all the way down to their infants, etc?  Do you 
think this was widesread among all nations at the time?  I have read it was a 
common practice that when they came upon the enemy's chariots, they were to 
cut the hamstrings of the horses.  Good Lord!  Why put the animal through 
such misery?  If you need to disable the horse, the least you could do is 
kill him.  This way the horse starves to death or bleeds to death.
 
Another question.  Studying culture, I know there is a cause and affect.  
Something leads to something else.  Many civilizations worshipped the sun and 
their religious festivals corresponded with the seasons.  This is very 
understandable, since they were so dependant on the weather to survive.  
Cause and affect.  So what do you think led these people to be this way?  How 
did we evolve from this into the people that we are today, where we have 
animal rights activists, vegans, women hold jobs, have a say in who they 
marry, etc?  Part of my logic says we are all born good and have a spark of 
the devine in us.  Looking back, considering evolution if you will, the less 
intelligent life on this planet, any other animal besides humans, you do not 
see rapings, torturing, annihilating an entire nation including the females 
and infants, the way the Hebrews had a practice of.  See 1 Samuel 15:1-3  So 
if evolution be the case, the neanderthals were
 more peaceful, I'm sure than these people and these Hebrews evolved into 
this.  But why?
 
These are some of the things I have been wondering.  I am not here to cause 
arguments or offend.  I am always learning more and I realize I don't know 
everything.  I have asked this in religious groups that want to study the 
scriptures but the people usually get upset, saying I am questioning God, 
since God supposedly gave the commands for them to do these things.  While I 
do pray, I also have a hard time believing that they were actually commanded 
by God to kill an entire nation that he led into being.  I am fascinated with 
ancient cultures and ancient history.  I love studying how they lived by 
studying their literature that we have today and examining how far we have 
come as a people over the eons of time.
 
Thanks.
 
Shelly


Shelly


Fozzy "Hey Kermit! Do you know why everybody loves the mushroom?"
Kermit "No, Fozzy. Why?"
Fozzy "Because he's such a fungi!! Wakka wakka wakka!"
>From Yigal.Levin AT biu.ac.il  Thu Aug  4 03:13:01 2011
Return-Path: <Yigal.Levin AT biu.ac.il>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 20217)
        id 2BDECE8B64; Thu,  4 Aug 2011 03:13:01 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on 
mailman1.ibiblio.org
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,
        RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB autolearn=no version=3.2.5
Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il (mtaout23.012.net.il [80.179.55.175])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B8CE8B50
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Thu,  4 Aug 2011 03:12:58 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by
        a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id
        <0LPE007006MF5N00 AT a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for
        b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:12:57 +0300 (IDT)
Received: from leptop ([80.74.111.178]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il
        (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id
        <0LPE007EG6PL5X00 AT a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for
        b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:12:57 +0300 (IDT)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:12:58 +0300
From: Yigal Levin <Yigal.Levin AT biu.ac.il>
In-reply-to: <1312440947.27472.YahooMailClassic AT web111809.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
X-012-Sender: leviny AT 012.net.il
To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-id: <000001cc5275$f0879390$d196bab0$%Levin AT biu.ac.il>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255
Content-language: he
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Thread-index: AcxSc5ypIFxl1mHmRN6kJbSoCZRfogAAIfKg
References: <1312440947.27472.YahooMailClassic AT web111809.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hello.  I just joined.
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:13:01 -0000

Dear Shelly,

Thanks for the introduction and welcome to B-Hebrew. It looks as if you have
a lot of interesting issues on your mind. However, I'm not sure that
B-Hebrew is the appropriate place in which to address them. B-Hebrew is a
forum for the discussion of the text of the Hebrew Bible (that is, what most
Christians call the Old Testament), preferably with reference to the actual
Hebrew text. We do recognize that in order to understand a text one must
also understand the society that produced that text, and thus we do
occasionally allow discussions on historical, literary, social and other
issues, but only as these derive from the text itself. In other words,
questions such as "what does passage so and so mean when it says such and
such?" or, "does passage so and so mean such and such?" are legitimate for
the list, but not the type of very general questions that you asked.

Also, while trying to understand the theology of the text is part of
understanding the text, this list is NOT about anyone's religious beliefs.
It's great that you started off with a statement about where you stand, but
we are NOT here to debate or to discuss out own personal faith (or lack of
it). 

And finally, the list rules state that every post must be signed with your
full (first and last) name.

After all that, I look forward to interacting with you on the list!


Yigal Levin
Co-Moderator, B-Hebrew 

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Shelly Saya
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:56 AM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [b-hebrew] Hello. I just joined.

Hi all.  I just joined.
 
OK.  To be honest, I have always been interested in Judaism but I have
always had problems believing in some of the doctrine, like most religions. 
:P
 
I was raised Christian, like most people I have known throughout my life,
here in Detroit, MI.  I have not believed in the Christian church's
teachings since I was 18, such as the trinity, the divinity of Christ, etc. 
But I still enjoy reading my bible.  I like to read the Catholic bible
because of the apocrypha (which means more ancient books to read :P).  I
realize this is not a religious forum but feel this is important in my
introduction.  The bible is not just a list of beliefs in a religion but
also a historical book.  And you might want to know where I'm coming from
since introductions are encouraged.
 
When I read these books, I try to think as the author might, considering
that culture at the time the book was written.  For example, there is a big
difference between the book of Judges and the books of Mattew or Acts. 
Different time and slightly different thinking in people.  Well, I would
think, anyway.  :P
 
What I really want from all of you are your opinions on the culture at the
time.  From what I've read in the old testament, I do think they were rather
barbaric, inconsiderate and incompassionate to women and livestock alike. 
But they were very, very clean compared to neighboring civilizations.
 
A few of my questions are: Do you think there was a correlation between the
two, the need for them to be so clean and also their disregard for women,
animals, neighboring nations all the way down to their infants, etc?  Do you
think this was widesread among all nations at the time?  I have read it was
a common practice that when they came upon the enemy's chariots, they were
to cut the hamstrings of the horses.  Good Lord!  Why put the animal through
such misery?  If you need to disable the horse, the least you could do is
kill him.  This way the horse starves to death or bleeds to death.
 
Another question.  Studying culture, I know there is a cause and affect. 
Something leads to something else.  Many civilizations worshipped the sun
and their religious festivals corresponded with the seasons.  This is very
understandable, since they were so dependant on the weather to survive. 
Cause and affect.  So what do you think led these people to be this way? 
How did we evolve from this into the people that we are today, where we have
animal rights activists, vegans, women hold jobs, have a say in who they
marry, etc?  Part of my logic says we are all born good and have a spark of
the devine in us.  Looking back, considering evolution if you will, the less
intelligent life on this planet, any other animal besides humans, you do not
see rapings, torturing, annihilating an entire nation including the females
and infants, the way the Hebrews had a practice of.  See 1 Samuel 15:1-3  So
if evolution be the case, the neanderthals were
 more peaceful, I'm sure than these people and these Hebrews evolved into
this.  But why?
 
These are some of the things I have been wondering.  I am not here to cause
arguments or offend.  I am always learning more and I realize I don't know
everything.  I have asked this in religious groups that want to study the
scriptures but the people usually get upset, saying I am questioning God,
since God supposedly gave the commands for them to do these things.  While I
do pray, I also have a hard time believing that they were actually commanded
by God to kill an entire nation that he led into being.  I am fascinated
with ancient cultures and ancient history.  I love studying how they lived
by studying their literature that we have today and examining how far we
have come as a people over the eons of time.
 
Thanks.
 
Shelly


Shelly


Fozzy "Hey Kermit! Do you know why everybody loves the mushroom?"
Kermit "No, Fozzy. Why?"
Fozzy "Because he's such a fungi!! Wakka wakka wakka!" 
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew