Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 30:20-30

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: James Christian <jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com>
  • To: Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 30:20-30
  • Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 01:08:38 +0300

Yes Yitzhak you are right I learned Hebrew under James Davila but even
before that I knew that Hebrew words for son and daughter can also mean
grandson and granddaughter. The simple Hebrew text you are pointing to
translates as:

Oholibamah daughter of Anah granddaughter of Zibeon.

Also being fluent in Hebrew I'm sure you can read the simple phrase at the
beginning of Genesis 36:20 which quite clearly starts a section about the
genealogy of the Horites from Seir on (great great granddaddy Horite). That
reference is made to the land of Edom is referring to a geographical
location not a family tree. The family tree is quite clearly Horite. Edom's
family tree is from verse 9 to 19. 20 to 29 are about the Horites who lived
in Edom before Esau's lot (the Edomites). Verses 31 to 42 seems to be about
Edomite kings in Edom (presumably after they had driven the Horites out).

We get a bit of mixing between the Horites and the Edomites through Anah's
daughter (who is also Zibeon's granddaughter).

I understand that you feel the Samaritan tradition reads )emim. Please
provide a translation that makes contextual sense if you truly feel this to
be the case. We are all waiting eagerly.

James Christian

On 18 May 2010 00:40, Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:02 AM, James Christian wrote:
> > I've got to be honest with you here Yitzhak, you've totally lost me. The
> > genealogy is a Horite genealogy not an Edomite one. The girl 10 verses
> > earlier is his daughter (Oholibamah) not Anah himself. In the Horite
> > genealogy it is mentioned that Anah had a daughter Oholibamah while it is
> > usual to only list sons. This is evidently to link Anah in some way
> related
> > to Esau through one of his wives. Anah, as I understand the text, was one
> of
> > Esau's father in laws.
> > Anyway, just what you were trying to suggest with your lengthy discussion
> of
> > the Samaritan version is still completely beyond me. You make some vague
> > mention of the Nephilim but failed to provide an alternative reading that
> > would make sense.
> > James Christian
>
> James, I have got no idea how to respond here. I keep looking at it every
> day,
> and I wonder how to respond. I mean, I was under the understanding that
> you
> had a year's study of college first year Hebrew under Jim Davila, based on
> past communication. Now, here is a verse in pretty simple Hebrew that
> reads
> אהליבמה בת ענה בת צבעון, yet you write, "The girl 10 verses earlier is
> his daughter
> (Oholibamah) not Anah himself." Well, the first בת relates to Oholibamah
> but
> the second בת relates to (anah. This is how it works in Hebrew. See in
> Genesis 24:47 - בת בתואל בן נחור. So, at least at a very basic reading,
> Gen
> 36:14 and Gen 36:2, suggest that (anah was a girl. I tried to see if
> the cantillation
> marks provide disambiguation here, but comparing them to Gen 24:47 or
> 24:15,
> it doesn't seem to me that they do.
>
> Then regarding the Horite/Hurrian genealogy, you suggest it has nothing to
> do
> with Edom even though in verse 21 it reads clearly -- "in the land of
> Edom." So
> you would like to suggest Edomites would not identify with this because
> only Horites would identify with this particular section? The whole
> chapter
> deals with Edom. Verse 1 identifies Esau with Edom. Verse 8-9 again
> identify Esau with Edom, as the father of the Edomites, and as Edom
> himself, as well as linking him with Se(ir. This goes on throughout the
> chapter, including verse 21 which relates (anah as one of the chiefs,
> of Se(ir, in Edom. So I don't really understand how your statement that
> this
> is a Horite genealogy and not an Edomite one goes along with what I read in
> the Hebrew text of my Bible.
>
> As for the lengthy discussion, I find it hard to believe that you read
> through
> the entire mail and failed to see that I was supporting the reading )emim,
> rather than yemim of the MT. I also find it curious that you continue to
> note how the Samaritan tradition here is in agreement with this story of
> the "bloke who found some hot springs." I guess you're not one to let
> evidence get in the way.
>
> Yitzhak Sapir
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page