Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:34 AM, Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Randall Buth wrote:
>>
>>> The reading brought up of Ps 22:18 strikes me strange. yar'ey
>>> bi is not a smooth reading (smixut+preposition-- while possible,
>>> it is not the expected preposition with yare, as if 'fearers of-because
>>> -of-me'), while the idiom with yir'u bi "they will see their victory over
>>> me" is classic. Anyway, like the 'reading ability' mentioned with
>>> scrambled English, I would probably even read a Qumran text
>>> that appeared to be y.r.'.y. b.y as yir'u bi because y and w in the
>>> Qumran script are notoriously interchanged. It reminds me of how I
>>> read the newspaper without bothering to put on glasses. d and r,
>>> b and k blur in my eyesight, but I just read the text anyway. Most
>>> of the time one doesn't need to re-read or re-look, or get one's
>>> glasses.
>>
>> Images of the fragment are available on the internet due to its
>> proximity to Ps 22:17, which is a heavy point of debate.
>>
>> Here are two:
>> http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Psalms_22:16&redirect=no
>>
>> Karl apparently doesn't see that the Waw connects with the Aleph
>> and is therefore longer.  Note that the Aleph's left leg has a "serif"
>> going to the right and down, unlike all other Alephs...
>>
>> I don't know why you give Karl the benefit that yr)y by is possible.
>> I do not see how it is possible at all.
>
> shalom Yitzhak,
>
> thank you for the ms reference/picture.
> I was not referring to the DS manuscript but to general Hebrew
> structure.
>
> It is possible to read (that is, 'to interpret')
> a smixut noun on a prepositional phrase, as in the phrase
> e.g., kol Hosey-bo  'all refuge-finders-of-in-him'.
>
> However, while the structure is possible, the semantics are NOT
> a good reading, since only ra'a "he saw" normallly takes a b-
> preposition for its object, and that for a specific idiom meaning to
> 'boast in victory over'. Consequently, without even looking at the
> manuscript, I would read this as hemma yabbiTu, yir'u vi
> 'they will watch, they will gloat over me in victory'
> (or some such similar English). And even if the yod
> and vav were not clear in that particular manuscript,
> I would read it that way. Reading handwriting is partially by what
> is written and partially by what makes sense. Every letter in
> a handwritten text does not need to be clear, as we prove everyday
> in any language when we scribble off a note to someone.
>
> PS: I also renamed the thread because these comments do not
> refer to the issue of using the MT vowels for internalization a
> dialect of Hebrew, but refers to a specific reading of Psalm 22:18.
>
> Randall Buth

PSS: (to Yitzhaq)
Perhaps I should have made explicit that I am agreeing with
your reading and interpretation and disagreeing with Karl's reading
and interpretation. Sometimes in jumping threads it is not clear to
where one's objection is directed.



>>
>> Yitzhak Sapir
>>
>>>
>>> the bottom line is that written texts are underdifferentiated by
>>> their nature and that a language is not the graphic system that
>>> partially records the language. A language, and valid for any
>>> language, is the complete system that forms in users heads.
>>> For BH the most complete dialect of BH in unbroken continuity with
>>> using communities is recommended as the best starting point.
>>> Even though BH became first a 'high language' to a diglossia and
>>> then a second language to a community, BH is not like Ugaritic or
>>> Phoenician where the language lost a continuous using community
>>> and needed 100% reconstruction/decipherment. Continuous use
>>> means that organic change can be backtracked should one wish,
>>> as opposed to "reconstruction" which is artificial and dependent on
>>> the skill of the reconstructor.
>>>
>>> So students would do well to learn the morphology of BH thru
>>> the MT and to internalize it  'all the way'. then they will read the
>>> biblical text whether pointed or unpointed and will be sensitive to
>>> other readings or interpretations, whether with or against the MT.
>>>
>>> braxot
>>> Randall Buth
>>>
>>> --
>>> Randall Buth, PhD
>>> www.biblicalulpan.org
>>> randallbuth AT gmail.com
>>> Biblical Language Center
>>> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Randall Buth, PhD
> www.biblicalulpan.org
> randallbuth AT gmail.com
> Biblical Language Center
> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
>



-- 
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth AT gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life