Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>]

Hi,

see comments below.

Quoting Ben Crick <ben.crick AT argonet.co.uk>:

> On Wed  6 May 2009 (00:12:50 +0100), j.read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk wrote:
> > Among the things I was always interested in understanding were things
> > like
> >
> > 1) How do we know that Hebrews designated days from evening to
> > evening? Do we have any written evidence of this other than
> > interpretations of statements in Genesis 1?
>
>  [probably off-topic for B-Hebrew]
>
>  That is the way the Jews designate the Day change; why, I know not.
>  In Genesis 1 the Days of Creation are enumerated, "the 1st, 2nd, 3rd,...etc
>  Day". Each day is terminated with the statement "And the evening and the
>  morning were the first day, etc.". The term `eReB BoQeR evening/morning is
>  used elsewhere in Scripture to mean a "Day"; whereas surely an "`eReB BoQeR"
>  is not a Day at all, but a Night!  One would have thought that the command
>  Y:HiY 'oWR (Genesis 1:3) would correspond to Dawn, not to Dusk!
>
> > 2) Why was a week seven days and not e.g. 10?
>
>  It is remarkable that just about every tribe and culture uses the 7-day
>  week. The Year is one circuit of the sun by the earth; a Month is one
>  circuit of the earth by the moon. There is no natural delineator for
>  the 7-day week. The Hebrews cite the 4th Commandment in Exodus 20:11 as
>  the Divine rationale for the universal 7-day week. Attempts to have an 8-day
>  cycle, or a 10-day cycle, have been made, but abandoned. The human frame
>  needs a 7-day week for work and leisure. The Creator knows best!

Are you trying to suggest that since Adam there has been a 7-day week?  
The first mention of a 7 day week ever is after the liberation from  
Egypt of the people of Isreal. After working without stop the  
introduction of a periodical rest day would remind them of this act of  
salvation and be something to celebrate. I don't see any evidence  
internal or external which suggests there was a rest day before this  
period.

As regards cultures with different numbers of days in the week take a  
look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week There have been quite a few.

> > 3) How did the Hebrews decide when to stick an extra month in?  Why did
> >  they feel the need?
>
>  If you look at the Ship's Log of Noah's Ark in Genesis 7, you will see that
>  there were 30 days per month, and 12 months per year, making a 360-day
>  year before the Flood. If you have access to Thibant's /Astronomie/ you
>  will see that the ancient Hindu year was 12 months of 30 days, 360 days,
>  as required by the Savana Year of the /Aryabhatiya/ (a Vedic work). The
>  Chinese had a 360-day year. The Incas of Peru and the Mayans of Yucatan
>  also had a 360-day year.
>
>  After the Flood the earth's rotation speeded up, giving an extra 5.25 days
>  on top of the 360. At the same time, the month was shortened from 30 earth
>  days to 29.5 earth days. This caused havoc with the neat original calendar
>  defined by the Sumerians. They were the first to divide the circle into 360
>  degrees, one for each day of the year; and to use a mathematical base of 60
>  for their calculations (60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour or a
>  degree of arc). This enabled them to tabulate numbers in columns, enabling
>  arithmetic to prosper. Try to work out "seventy times seven" using Hebrew
>  or Greek or Roman numerals!

Hmmm. I'm not sure I'm buying all of this. Your argument loses  
consistency in places. Your argument is based on taking the flood as  
fact (a possibility I am willing to consider and to this day actually  
support) but yet you then talk about the Sumerians as pre-flood and  
post-flood as a continuous culture. This raises several question marks  
in your flow of logic.

Also, I'm not sure the ships log shows what you suggest. But let's  
just agree that it does and skip to your observations of other  
cultures. Do you have any references to primary sources that support  
your assertions? If so, why do you then assume that the earth changed  
its rate of spin? Do you have any evidence for that? I am sure there  
would be repercussions affecting whether life could exist on earth of  
either speeding up or slowing down the spin of the earth. This would  
affect gravity, the magnetic field (factors which are pretty essential  
to our existence).

>  The Jewish Calendar is Luni-Solar. The 12 months are of 30 and 29 days
>  alternately. The difference between the Lunar year (354 days) and the Solar
>  year (365.25 days) is made up by intercalating an extra 13th month   
> of 30 days
>  in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th year of the 19-year Metonic
>  Cycle. This extra month is Adar Sheni (2nd Adar), and a year containing it
>  is called a Leap Year.
Thanks for this summary. I was already aware of the Metonic cycle. But  
the so-called Metonic cycle was formalised by Meton long after the  
Jews had already been using their less mathematical techniques for  
centuries. I'm more interested in establishing what those techniques  
were. My main question revolves around the choice of 7 days and  
whether there are lunar reasons for this.

>  The Jewish Calendar (Anno Mosiae) dates from 3761 BC, the Jewish calculation
>  of the year of the Creation. Whether the days of the week numbered in sevens
>  with the seventh day as the Sabbath have been strictly preserved in
>  unbroken sequence since the Creation is problematical. We have no means
>  of knowing.

As I said earlier, pre-escape from Egypt there is no hint of 7 day  
week being used by anybody.
>  The New Moon of Tishri starts off the calendrical year; but certain shifts
>  are made so that the Day of Atonement YoM KiPPuR never falls on a Friday
>  or a Sunday, or on the 7th day of Tabernacles, or on a Sabbath.

Are you talking about modern calculations or archaic systems here?

>  Hope this helps...
>
>  Ben
> --
>  Revd Ben Crick, BA CF  <ben.crick(at)argonet.co.uk>            ZFC Os
>
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