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  • From: LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>
  • To: Yohanan bin-Dawidh <yohanan.bin.dawidh AT gmail.com>, b-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] A different generation of biblical scholarship
  • Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:22:34 -0800 (PST)

Really.  I should think that "Torah" is the Jewish word for the Pentateuch.

 
Lloyd Barré
 
 

--- On Sat, 2/7/09, Yohanan bin-Dawidh <yohanan.bin.dawidh AT gmail.com> wrote:

From: Yohanan bin-Dawidh <yohanan.bin.dawidh AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] A different generation of biblical scholarship
To: l_barre AT yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 5:10 AM



Lloyd;
 
You wrote, "What is the Humash?"
 
This is the Hebrew word for what you refer to as the Pentateuch.
 
Yohanan bin-Dawidh



>From l_barre AT yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 18:26:53 2009
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From: LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>
To: AncientBibleHistory AT yahoogroups.com, b-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] ABH aris Jacob & Psalm 29
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Why do you think Jacob wrestled with an angel.  He wrestled with El. 
"Penuel" means he saw the face of El (and lived).

 
Lloyd Barré
 
 

--- On Fri, 2/6/09, aris hobeth <ahobeth AT yahoo.com> wrote:

From: aris hobeth <ahobeth AT yahoo.com>
Subject: ABH aris Jacob & Psalm 29
To: AncientBibleHistory AT yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 1:21 AM






I take the Jacob's wrestling match with the angel to actually be a
conciliatory (?) fight between brothers Jacob and Esau over (royal)
succession. They seemed to have settled in a draw, perhaps a deal involving
property and kingship. Jacob had come offering riches to his brother, from
whom he had taken his inheritance, as a peace ploy, or as proof that he had
done a better job than Esau would have. Rubbing it in his nose perhaps? But
Jacob's gifts and his deference to his cheated brother, seems to have made
peace between the pair (read the two states each ruled). The title "angel"
given to flater his brother, seems to have sealed the deal. Better to make
peace than war.

Sly Jacob also fathered Joseph, son of his favorite wife. Joseph in an obtuse
way ended up virtual ruler of Egypt. Who was that favorite wife? Egyptian
royalty? Jacob may somehow planned the ruse that allowed Joseph's brother's
to appear not so inferior to that favored son, Joseph. Perhaps those
Midianites who "bought" Joseph from his brothers, were actually sent by their
father to gather up the star son, known to be chosen to become the powerful
Egyptian ruler.

Later on, when Moses (a royal Egyptian of the ethnic group) wrote the history
of previous successions, he was explaining the political boundries and their
relations to the royal families. It was not a straight line of succession
because the lands were inherited in different ways. Sometimes only the oldest
son (a common theme) inherited everything. Sometimes, as in Joseph's family,
each son got a patch of land, which often became separate states. 

And sometimes, when there were many sons, as in David's case, the sons vied
to be chosen top dog, or they tried to eliminate the competition. When
Absalom, David's oldest, died, the sadness may have been that he was David's
favorite, the chosen successor, who turned traitor, or who failed to unseat
his powerful father. Or actually, David prefered his favored wife's son,
Solomon, and just allowed the death of the competition (unlike the bout
between the brothers Jacob and Esau.) Certainly this is speculation, but the
dynastic succession given in the Old Testament is just a history of the
victors. Like any other history, the Bible tells about the generals, the
kings, the wars, the politics, and the royal intrigues.

Sincerely, Aris M. Hobeth

____________ _________ _________ __
From: andrej1234au <andrej1234au@ yahoo.com. au>
To: AncientBibleHistory @yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:31:14 AM
Subject: ABH Re: Psalm 29

Hi Mary

> The angel that wrestled with Jacob said he'd put
> his name on Jacob so Jacob's name became IsRAEL..

Well, it doesn't really say that an angel sought to put his name on
Jacob, merely that a man wrestled with him till daybreak and then
named him Israel as he had prevailed. This is the Hebrew language:
the root crh means 'to strive, to contend'.

It does interest me that none have seen this as the antipode of the

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>From jaihare AT gmail.com Sun Feb 8 04:51:00 2009
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From: Jason Hare <jaihare AT gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Word pairs in biblical and semitic literatures
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Could you explain the term "hendiadys" and tell me why it would be
useful to translate a Hebrew expression (assuming you mean to
translate XSD W'MT with it) with something that has no meaning in
English?

Regards,
Jason Hare

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Olivier Randrianjaka
<rev_oli AT hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Fred Putnam,
>
> Thank you for your contribution, I am quite brand new in this and I am
> wondering according to your explanation whether paired words like CHESED
> WEMETH, which is sometimes should be translated as a "hendiadys" are also
> classified as word pairs.
> Thanks for your helps.




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