Biblical Hebrew Forum

[JoeWallack AT aol.com]

On Mar 22, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Harold Holmyard wrote:



> Dear Joseph,
>
> If you don't like Gesenius, I will give you the same information from
> Waltke-O'Connor, Biblical Hebrew Syntax (1990) #15.5.1e, quoting:
>
> The article may also mark nouns definite in the imagination,  
> designating
> either a particular person or thing necessarily understood to be  
> present
> or vividly portraying someone or something whose identity is not
> otherwise indicated . . . .  In some cases the proper English  
> rendering
> is indefinite:
>
> Gen 42:23 _An interpreter_ was between them.
 
JW:
Yes, looking for examples in the Hebrew Bible is excellent evidence for 
meaning. Regarding 
Genesis 42:23 though a better question than how the Hebrew definite article 
was translated is how it should 
have been translated. For reference purposes:
_http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen42.pdf_ 
(http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen42.pdf) 
Some Jewish Tradition appears to have attached some significance to the 
definite article here:
_http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8237&showrashi=true_ 
(http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8237&showrashi=true) 
""23. They did not know that Joseph understood, for the interpreter was 
between them."
They did not know that Joseph understood Heb. שֹׁמֵעַ, understood their 
language, and they were 
speaking in this manner in his presence. — [from Tanchuma Buber Vayigash 7]
 

for the interpreter was between them For whenever they spoke with him, the 
interpreter, who knew both 
Hebrew and Egyptian, was between them, and he would interpret their words for 
Joseph and Joseph’s words 
for them. Therefore, they thought that Joseph did not understand Hebrew. — 
[from Targum Onkelos]
 

the interpreter This was his son Manasseh. — [from Gen. Rabbah 91:8, Targum 
Jonathan, Targum 
Yerushalmi]"



In any case I see no compelling reason here to force or even prefer a 
translation of:
 
"They did not know that Joseph understood, for an interpreter was between 
them"
 
over 
 
"They did not know that Joseph understood, for the interpreter was between 
them"
 
There is nothing awkward about using the definite article for the English. 
The indefinite English translation
looks like a dynamic equivalence attempt. Translating based on how the same 
meaning would likely have 
been composed in English.
 
Another problem with 42:23 as an example is "interpreter" could be a title 
here. 
 
Since we all agree that the Hebrew definite article for the most part, serves 
the same purpose as the English
definite article, I'm looking for really good multiple examples of Hebrew 
usage that would clearly have an
Indefinite English translation in order to support an Indefinite English 
translation for 7:14. This is all before we
look at the surrounding Specific context of 7:14. 
 
 
 
Joseph


 
 
 



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.