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b-hebrew - [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14

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  • From: JoeWallack AT aol.com
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14
  • Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:07:38 EDT



On Mar 22, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Harold Holmyard wrote:



> Dear Joseph,
>
> If you don't like Gesenius, I will give you the same information from
> Waltke-O'Connor, Biblical Hebrew Syntax (1990) #15.5.1e, quoting:
>
> The article may also mark nouns definite in the imagination,
> designating
> either a particular person or thing necessarily understood to be
> present
> or vividly portraying someone or something whose identity is not
> otherwise indicated . . . . In some cases the proper English
> rendering
> is indefinite:
>
> Gen 42:23 _An interpreter_ was between them.

JW:
Yes, looking for examples in the Hebrew Bible is excellent evidence for
meaning. Regarding
Genesis 42:23 though a better question than how the Hebrew definite article
was translated is how it should
have been translated. For reference purposes:
_http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen42.pdf_
(http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen42.pdf)
Some Jewish Tradition appears to have attached some significance to the
definite article here:
_http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8237&showrashi=true_
(http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8237&showrashi=true)
""23. They did not know that Joseph understood, for the interpreter was
between them."
They did not know that Joseph understood Heb. שֹׁמֵעַ, understood their
language, and they were
speaking in this manner in his presence. — [from Tanchuma Buber Vayigash 7]


for the interpreter was between them For whenever they spoke with him, the
interpreter, who knew both
Hebrew and Egyptian, was between them, and he would interpret their words for
Joseph and Joseph’s words
for them. Therefore, they thought that Joseph did not understand Hebrew. —
[from Targum Onkelos]


the interpreter This was his son Manasseh. — [from Gen. Rabbah 91:8, Targum
Jonathan, Targum
Yerushalmi]"



In any case I see no compelling reason here to force or even prefer a
translation of:

"They did not know that Joseph understood, for an interpreter was between
them"

over

"They did not know that Joseph understood, for the interpreter was between
them"

There is nothing awkward about using the definite article for the English.
The indefinite English translation
looks like a dynamic equivalence attempt. Translating based on how the same
meaning would likely have
been composed in English.

Another problem with 42:23 as an example is "interpreter" could be a title
here.

Since we all agree that the Hebrew definite article for the most part, serves
the same purpose as the English
definite article, I'm looking for really good multiple examples of Hebrew
usage that would clearly have an
Indefinite English translation in order to support an Indefinite English
translation for 7:14. This is all before we
look at the surrounding Specific context of 7:14.



Joseph








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