Biblical Hebrew Forum

["K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Dear Steve:

On 4/10/07, Steve Miller <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > No significance. "And" is optional in lists.
> [Steve Miller] Thanks Karl and Yigal. Can anyone give me examples of lists
> where an "and" is omitted? I cannot find any, but I don't have a practical
> way to search for them. I am just looking for it in my daily reading.
> > >
I have not made a detailed study of the phenomenon, rather I just
noticed it in my daily reading. There are many places in Tanakh where
lists are given, you may try the early chapters of 1 Chronicles.
> > >
> > > 2)     Is there any significance that "et", which points to the direct
> > > object, precedes Judah and Israel, but not Jerusalem?
> > >
> > Again no.
> [Steve Miller] Thanks. This is common, and I couldn't find a significance in
> other places.
> > >
> > >
> > > Zech 1:21 (2:4 MT) end phrase "these are come to affright them, to cast
> > out
> > > the horns of the nations that lifted up a horn over the land of Judah to
> > > scatter it."
> > >
> > >  וַיָּבֹאוּ אֵלֶּה לְהַחֲרִיד אֹתָם לְיַדֹּות אֶת־קַרְנֹות הַגֹּויִם
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1)Note that there is no "and" before the infinitive form of the verb
> > > "yadah". In the above translation: "to cast out the horns of the
> > nations" is
> > > in apposition to "to affright them". But that doesn't make sense because
> > > these are 2 different actions.  When an infinitive verb follows the
> > > causative verb "make them afraid", the meaning, everywhere I can find,
> > is to
> > > "to make them afraid to do xxxxxxx". So in this case, I think it should
> > be
> > > partially translated, "these are come to make them extremely afraid to
> > > 'yadah' the horns of the nations." (1 Sam 21:1; Exo 3:6;34:30; Num
> > 12:8).
> > > Does this make sense?
> > >
> > > 2) The verb "yadah" is the root of the name Judah, which appears twice
> > in
> > > this verse. The verb is very common in the hiphil, where it means
> > "praise",
> > > "give thanks", or "confess".  The verb appears only once in the Qal,
> > where
> > > it is translated "shoot at" in Jer 50:14. That seems like a very
> > different
> > > meaning than the Hiphil. It appears 2 times in the Piel: once here in
> > Zech
> > > 1:21, and the other place is Lam 3:53, where it is translated "cast" as
> > in
> > > "cast a stone upon me".
> > > I would like to translate "yadah" here in Zech 1:21 as "praise", or
> > "exalt",
> > > so that the phrase would say, "These are come to make them [the nations]
> > > afraid of exalting the horns of the nations that lifted up …". Is this
> > > permissible?
> > >
> > Looking at the meaning of the verb, it refers to the actions of going
> > out towards something. It is used of a missile in attack, of throwing
> > down lots (in ancient times often stones were the lots), with the hand
> > going out in pointing out. Pointing out is also done verbally with the
> > action being understood in the mind's eye, and in the context of
> > pointing out what great things God has done is a type of praise.
> >
> > You took the above phrase out of context, the full verse reads
> >
> > ואמר מה אלה באים לעשות ויאמר לאמר אלה הקרנות אשר זרו את יהודה כפי איש
> > לא נשא ראשו ויבאו אלה להחריד אתם לידות את קרנות הגוים הנשאים קרן אל
> > ארץ יהודה לזרותה
> >
> > And he said, What are these coming to do? And he said saying, These
> > the horns which scatter Judah according to my mouth, and man does not
> > lift up his head, and these come to cause them to shiver (from
> > fright), to make the horns of the nations go forth, of the nations
> > lifting up a horn unto the land of Judah to scatter it.
> > >
> [Steve Miller]
> Karl, where do you get that the verb is used for throwing down lots?

I understand Lamentations 3:53 as referring to the people as captives
being divided up as spoils by casting lots. Again it is the outward
thrust action.

> ... And
> thanks very much! I had not noticed the phrase "according to my mouth". Also
> your explanation of "pointing out" is great link between "giving thanks",
> "confessing" and "praising". Would you say that it is possible to translate
> leyadot here as "to praise"?
As I have said repeatedly, how one understands a word as it is used in
its language, and how best to translate it, can be very different.
While the idea is pointing out, i.e. confessing, the translation at
times may be best as praise.

> -Steve Miller
> Detroit
> www.voiceInWilderness.info
Karl W. Randolph.