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  • From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] how scholars debate controversial issues
  • Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:34:19 +0100

Dear Harold

The point I tried to put across by quoting Hebrews 11:17 was that the meaning of Greek Perfect is not always clear at first glance. Your words "in one sense" and the very special BAGD explanation show that. From a grammatical point of view it is strange that we find the same verb two times in a parallel setting, one time as a perfect and the other time as an imperfect. On the basis of traditional grammar we can ask: If the first action was completed, why is it said that the second is uncompleted? We can further ask: If also the first action is uncompleted, why is the perfect used?
Again: It is difficult to know the force of the Perfect as long as all verbs have not been analysed.

Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo


----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Holmyard" <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] how scholars debate controversial issues


Rolf Furuli wrote:
I am sorry that I overlooked your question. At present I cannot give you a
definite answer regarding the meaning of Greek perfect, simply because I
have not analysed all the verbs of the NT, and the meaning of perfect is
more complicated than in the case of the aorist. One example of this is
Hebrews 11:17, where the force of the perfect is difficult. When the NIV
render the perfect "offered," this is factually wrong and contradicts its
rendering "was about to sacrifice".

HH: In one sense the perfect verb translation is not factually wrong,
because Abraham did offer his son, but God declined the offer, even
though he had commanded it, because he was only testing Abraham. So he
stopped the proceedings, but Abraham passed the test and had been in the
process of putting his son to death, obeying God.

The NWT is factually correct and there
is no contradiction between the rendering of the two verbs, but one can
discuss whether "as good as offered up" is the real force of the perfect. As
for Hebrew NT´s, the UBS translation renders both Greek verbs with a QATAL,
while Delitzsch´s translation renders the Greek perfect with HYH +
participle, and the Greek imperfect with Hebrew YIQTOL

NIV: By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered (PERFECT) Isaac as a
sacrifice. He who received the promises was about to sacrifice (IMPERFECT)
his one and only son

NWT: NIV: By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up
(PERFECT) Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted
to offer up (IMPERFECT) (his) only-begotten (son).


HH: There are other theories about the perfect verb in Heb 11:17. The
BAGD lexicon, under PROSFERW, indicates that the perfect in Heb 11:17
denotes what "stands written" in Scripture. They refer the reader to J.
H. Moulton, A Grammar of the NT, vol. 1, Prolegomena, pp. 129, 142, 238.
In spiritual terms, the act of Abraham continues to have value and
exists as a spiritual feat of faith testified to by Scripture. Abraham,
who still lives, has done this.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard

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