Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>]

Shalom Isaac,

The first part of my post was addressed to Liz, but I'd be glad to know what 
you think the Nephilim were. Giants? Perhaps, but then what are Anakim?

I do not agree that Shephelah means "elevated". True, the Shephelah is 
higher than the Moshor Haxoph, but the Israelites (or Judahites) were 
looking down at the Shephelah from the hills. Look at Gen. 38:1 or Judges 
14:1, or a dozen other places that describe people "going down" from the 
hills to the Shephelah. So to them it was "the low country". The coastal 
Canaanites or Philistines probably called it something like "Geva'ot".

Yigal Levin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
To: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
Cc: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] NPL/$PL (was: The radical letter L as marker of 
elevation)


> Yigal.
> I do not see in the text the NeFILIM being “contrasted” with BeNEI 
> HaELOHIM.
> It did not occur to me to even start and think that “$PL is some sort of 
> shaph'el of  NPL”. There is no such thing as a shaphel form of a Biblical 
> root.
> I did not say I lived in MISHOR HaXOF---we resided above it to the east.
> I am glad that you agree that “Shephelah” is an elevated region.
> I can understand your opposition to “unorthodox” methods and theories.
> Go over all Biblical Hebrew roots (start with EL or AL) that contain the 
> letter L and you will see that I am right.
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
> To: "b-hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] NPL/$PL (was: The radical letter L as marker of 
> elevation)
>
>
> > Dear Unrelated Frieds,
> >
> > Liz,
> >
> > The Nephilim first appear in Gen. 1:4, where they are contrasted (I 
> > think)
> > with "bene Ha'elohim". So I think that the Nephilim are earthy "mighty
> > ones". But who knows?
> >
> > You seem to think that $PL is some sort of shaph'el of NPL. Interesting.
> >
> >
> > Isaac,
> >
> > I'll continue to refrain from commenting on your very unorthodox theory 
> > of
> > the Hebrew language, but despite what you were taught as a child, there 
> > IS
> > no "shephelat haxoph" in Eretz Yisrael. The Shephelah is the low hilly 
> > area
> > that separates the coastal plain from the central hill country ("hahar").
> > Josh. 15:33-44 makes this very clear. There is also a "Shephelah of 
> > Israel"
> > (Josh. 11:16), perhaps the foothills of the western Galilee, but this is
> > uncertain. The coastal plain is "mishor haxoph".
> >
> > Yigal Levin
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
> > To: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
> > Cc: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The radical letter L as marker of elevation
> >
> >
> > > Lisbeth.
> > >
> > > First, we are dealing here with the science of language not with 
> > > Talmudic
> > > legends about some "fallen ones" that came to us riding on shooting 
> > > stars.
> > > I
> > > am sure that the KJV translators who wrote ‘giants’ for ‘nfilim’ knew 
> > > very
> > > well what they are doing. In present-day Hebrew ‘DOR HaNeFILIM’ is ‘the
> > > founding fathers’ (and mothers, of course).
> > >
> > > Now, 'to drop' and 'to fall' are TRANSLATIONS that seem befitting the
> > > Hebrew
> > > root NPL, not an EXPLANATION as to what it is. Try explaining to me, or 
> > > to
> > > yourself, or to a student, what NPL (say the verb in its kal form NAFAL)
> > > means, without using, supposedly equivalent English words, nor Hebrew
> > > synonyms. In doing so, you need also to keep in mind that the Hebrew 
> > > root
> > > describes a constant material state, not a process in time. In other
> > > words,
> > > you need to separate language from imagination.
> > >
> > > To keep matters simple, I wish to refrain now from commenting on the
> > > subtler
> > > root $PL. Suffice it to say that I grew up in Israel in SHFELAT HaXOF 
> > > and
> > > I
> > > know what it is.
> > >
> > > Think also about the kindred root  נבל (NBL), and the fact that the name
> > > of
> > > the musical instrument NEVEL, harp, is derived from it. Moreover, I 
> > > think
> > > that the name Nabal of Samuel 25:3 means ‘a nobleman’.
> > >
> > > As far as I know we have no immediate relatives here in America. Anyway,
> > > whenever I see your name my heart leaps for a second.
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
> > > To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:28 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The radical letter L as marker of elevation
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Isaac,
> > > > (Are you related to my husband?)
> > > >
> > > > They're called Fallen Ones, because they fell from Heaven (I assume).
> > > > The root still means to fall in the kal, in the hiphil it is to drop, 
> > > > to
> > > > cause something to fall.
> > > > The fallen ones happened to be giants.
> > > > The Shephelah, the foothills of the Judean highlands, are the lowlands,
> > > > literally, from the same root as npl.
> > > > Liz Fried
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Isaac Fried
> > > > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:27 AM
> > > > > To: Yitzhak Sapir
> > > > > Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The radical letter L as marker of elevation
> > > > >
> > > > > Let us take the root נפל (NPL). In Genesis 6:4 we read about the נפלים
> > > > > (NeFILIM), which the KJV translates as ‘giants’, namely of elevated
> > > > > stature.
> > > > >
> > > > > Isaac Fried, Boston University
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
> > > > > To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:42 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Richard Steiner on Sin and Shin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 1/11/07, Isaac Fried wrote:
> > > > > >> Every Hebrew root that contains the letter L materially refers to 
> > > > > >> an
> > > > > >> elevated state.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good examples that illustrate the above are the roots  $PL "low", 
> > > > > > NPL
> > > > > > "fall".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yitzhak Sapir
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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