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  • From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] We and us
  • Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:56:33 -0800

David:

The problem I am having with this discussion is that it is done with
only a minimal reference to Hebrew usages. Further that the literature
displays a Eurocentric view. If after analyzing the many hundreds of
usages of )NY and )NKY that the contexts indicate politeness function,
I'd like to see a statistical analysis of those contexts, but so far
all I have seen is speculation.

Karl W. Randolph.

On 11/17/06, David Kummerow <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com> wrote:

We are discussing it in this way because it has been suggested in the
literature that the choice between the forms is one of politeness. It is
the main real functional difference that anyone has suggested. This is
the reason for the discussion of politeness (other proposals in the
literature have mainly revolved around a diachronics without any
discussion of function).

The discussion of the function of pronouns in other languages has
bearing if one accepts that typology can guide to some extent analysis
of dead languages. You may not accept the typological argument and
that's fine. But even if you don't accept it, others do, and those
others see benefit therefore in discussing it. Comparing with other
languages, if one accepts typology, does get somewhere; I disagree with you.

Regards,
David Kummerow.


> Why are you all so hung up on the 'politeness' function in the
> difference between )NY / )NKY ? I suspect that it is a grammatization
> of another function, but what it is I don't know yet. Both words are
> used hundreds of times, and by comparing all their usages the
> functional differences may become apparent. But just arguing and
> comparing with other languages gets nowhere.
>
> This would be a good subject for a Master's thesis. Professors, assign
> a grad student to get working. If there is a functional difference,
> many contexts may find both uses interchangeable. But if a common
> action can be found in which only one of the terms is used, and
> another where only the other is used, we have started on the road to
> understanding.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.




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