Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

I think you all have valid points (except for the low blow against the NWT 
which was completely unwarranted). 'Forever', is misleading because the word 
is clearly used contexts which do not allow such a meaning. 'Time 
indefinite', while it has honest intentions is funny language which even when 
you take it apart could be misconstrued anyway. I think we need to find a 
term or phrase which combines the intentions of 'time indefinite' with the 
simplicity and clarity of 'forever' and yet clearly and concisely encaptures 
the sense of both a long time and an undefined amount of time.

e.g.

'I saw her ages ago'
'We're going to have to wait for ages'
'He'll rule for ages'

etc.

I'm not saying that 'ages' or 'for ages' is always the best way to render 
this but in many cases it seems to both capture the sense and not violate 
common English usage. This is were I believe that good instincts prove 
themselves to be more valuable than all the linguistic waffle that we are 
sometimes bombarded with. 

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.
>From peter AT qaya.org  Sat Nov 12 11:16:53 2005
Return-Path: <peter AT qaya.org>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from mail.link77.net (kastanet.org [208.145.81.89])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E614C00B
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:16:52 -0500 
(EST)
X-ExternalMail: External
X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp
Received: from [213.162.124.237] (account peter_kirk AT kastanet.org HELO
        [10.0.0.1]) by mail.link77.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.8)
        with ESMTPSA id 93315329; Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:16:52 -0500
Message-ID: <43761582.4080407 AT qaya.org>
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:17:06 +0000
From: Peter Kirk <peter AT qaya.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
References: 
<6B84A53BD25BCA46B070A05DD8C8C9F874EF21 AT KUDBEX01.kuds.kingston.ac.uk>
In-Reply-To: 
<6B84A53BD25BCA46B070A05DD8C8C9F874EF21 AT KUDBEX01.kuds.kingston.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Daniel 6:27 (time indefinite)
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:16:53 -0000

On 12/11/2005 15:58, Read, James C wrote:

>
> I think you all have valid points (except for the low blow against the
> NWT which was completely unwarranted). 'Forever', is misleading
> because the word is clearly used contexts which do not allow such a
> meaning. ...
>

Where? What contexts? Anyway, are you talking about the Aramaic phrase,
or the Hebrew near equivalent 'AD 'OLAM? If the latter, I accept that it
can mean something like "until the end of their life", e.g. in Deut
15:17, but with the clear implication that as far as the person is
concerned the situation is forever. It does not mean an indefinite time,
e.g. this verse cannot be translated "he will be your servant for an
indefinite time (and then he will go free)", nor even "he will be your
servant for ages" because this also suggests that he will then go free.

> ... 'Time indefinite', while it has honest intentions is funny
> language which even when you take it apart could be misconstrued
> anyway. I think we need to find a term or phrase which combines the
> intentions of 'time indefinite' with the simplicity and clarity of
> 'forever' and yet clearly and concisely encaptures the sense of both a
> long time and an undefined amount of time.
>

There is an English expression which might give the right meaning in
future contexts: "indefinitely", i.e. with no anticipated end. But I am
not sure that this is strong enough.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/