Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

Dear Vadim.

I am sincerely interested in hearing your views but so far I have only 
seen you present lots of bold assertions as if they were well established 
fact, without actually providing any evidence.
Do you think you could start providing proofs of your claims so that I 
better follow your reasoning?

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Vadim Cherny
Sent: Mon 8/1/2005 7:23 PM
To: Peter Kirk
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation
 
> Just to clarify here, the root we are considering is conventionally
> regarded as HWH but is in fact more correctly HWY (or perhaps HWW),
> because the final he (which has no mappiq, so I my suggestion has no
> problem with mappiq) is in fact not a pronounced he but a mater
> lectionis replacing an original yod (or perhaps vav).

Not impossible, but hardly a fact. I doubt ayn-ayn for hi or hw cell.

> As for other cases of root letter he being omitted in Greek
> transcription, we have been discussing another example on this list
> recently, Greek ELWI for Hebrew Elohi or Elohay in Mark 15:34.

A sort of third-hand hearsay. Diodorus heard Iao from Hebrews, not from
Greek-speaking Christians.

> We also have all the Hebrew names starting Yeho- which are all
transliterated
> starting iota-omega,

Then aleph in Iao is unlikely to originate from schwa. Rather, Y- I, H- a,
WH - o.

> also the name of king Yehu' (Jehu), which is EIOU,
> IHOU or IOU in Greek (H = eta) with no consonant replacing he.

Here he survived, as you see, though mutilated. Undoubtedly, you recognize
that similar pronunciation cannot make Iao out of ihie or ihwe.

In my opinion, you unwarrantedly ignore a rare phonetic environment of YHWH,
vcvv. If it is a verb, then first he has the best chance to be preserved as
consonant. In teophoric examples, existence of other consonants allow
vowelization of he.

Vadim Cherny

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From: "Vadim Cherny" <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>
To: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation
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RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation> I am interested to know how you come about 
such a radical
theory. You must have more reason than a philosophical idea of a society.

Well, only "I, thou, he" could be pronounced Iao. The verb cannot.
Plural suffixes are construed similarly. Duality ai (later - plural e-ei-im) 
means "thou, I". Abstract plural -o (-ot) is -au, "thou, he." This makes 
sense: using 1s, the most personal relation, for duality, and 3ms, the 
remotest, for abstract plurality.
Suffixes are vowels only. Consonants are semantical devices, vowels - 
morphological. Suffix consonants change between nouns and verbs, but vowels 
persist. Suffix consonants (caf 2s nouns, tav 2s verbs) served perhaps to 
write down suffixes without matres lectionis, or perhaps to avoid post-tonic 
gemination in penultimates-stressed nouns. This is a separate topic.
YHWH cannot be a meaningful word, like the verb, since no one could possibly 
declare a well-attested verb a great secret with unknown pronunciation.

> How would you account for the forms YaH, YaHu/YaHo with your model?

he could be mater lectionis for 2ms suffix -a. Incidentally, he is also 
"supportive consonant" of 3ms -hu-au-o. Thus, yau=yhh=yh with mappiq.
yhu=yau with mater lectionis
yho=yao=yau with 3ms hu-o

> How would you account for the transliterations IABE, IAOUAI etc.?

Iabe is literal, not phonetic transliteration; waw-beta.
Iaouai is plural form of Iao, modeled upon plural Elokim.

> Are there any patterns ANE cultures that led you to this hypothesis?

Of course, Judaism is unique.

> Is there any internal evidence in the TaNaKH which supports your theory? 

Depending on how you read it. Milgrom's interpretation, I believe, is 
supportive.

Vadim Cherny

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