Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

Thanx for the answer Rolf. I didn't have an opinion either way. I
just wanted to know other people's thoughts and evidences so that I 
could formulate my own opinion after hearing the proofs.

Re: verb forms.
Are you therefore saying that the verbs would be therefore only 
perfect and imperfect in aspect with no suggestion of tense? I 
thought it was already a well established fact that the hebrews 
had no concept of tense in their language. 
I have read arguments for a translation of the account of creation 
as a series of progressive actions rather than simple past events. 
Are you in favour of this mode of translation? Or am I understanding 
your comments badly? 


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Rolf Furuli
Sent: Sun 7/24/2005 3:22 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] masorete pointing v's LLX transliterations
 
Dear James,

The answer is clearly No. We cannot learn anything regarding the old 
pronunciation of Hebrew from the LXX.  The Masoretes were extremely careful 
when they copied the text, and we have every reason to believe that their 
vocalization represented the pronunciation that was used in B.C.E.

A curiosity: This year I defended my doctoral dissertation, which gives a 
completely new definition of the finite and infinite verbs of classical 
Hebrew. In this work I argue that Hebrew has only two conjugations and not 
four, and that the so-called consecutive forms were invented by the 
Masoretes. One of my opponents, from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, had 
problems in understanding how I could view the Masoretes as extremely 
faithful copyists and at the same time say that they invented the 
consecutive forms. We had a very lively discussion about this, were he gave 
many examples of the faithfulness of the Masoretes.


Best regards

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: [b-hebrew] masorete pointing v's LLX transliterations


>
> I don't have an opinion in this regard but recent discussions
> have made me wonder:
>
> Could it be that the pointing of the masoretes only show the
> pronunciation of the period?
> And that thus we cannot look to them as a good source for
> archaic vowel pronunciation?
> And that consequently the older LLX transliterations give a
> better source for understanding archaic vowel pronunciation?
> (within their limitations)
> While the hebrew text helps us to put the consonants in the
> right places that the LLX transliterations were incapable of
> expressing?
>
> Any thoughts on the matter, much appreciated.
>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH discussion recap
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On 24/07/2005 17:09, Gene Gardner wrote:

>...
>
>3)The cantillation marks in Psalm 96:10 does represent
>a tri-sylabic cantoring of YHWH, or possibly Adonay.
>This would need to be verified in the Massorah.
>
>
>
It is surely undeniable that by the time of the Masoretes, the word
pronounced here was not the original divine name.

>...
>
>5)That the pronunciation “YaHWeH”, is a scholarly
>re-construction based on early Greek writings.
>
>

It is a scholarly reconstruction, but the evidence is not only from the
early Greek writings. Other arguments which have gone into this is that
this include the rather small number of probable pronunciations of these
four letters, and that YaHWeH could be a form of the root HWH.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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