Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

Either way, the quotation does seem to well illustrate predominant 
attitudes instigated by the sect of the pharisees.

Also the transliterations offered by the church fathers show that 
a form of the name was still in circulation. Although, I would be 
interested to see in what context they make such transliterations.


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Bearpecs AT aol.com
Sent: Sun 7/24/2005 2:12 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation
 
 
In a message dated 7/24/2005 7:54:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
furuli AT online.no writes:

before  you bathe.  The Pharisees reply, "We complain of you Morning-bathers  
because you mention the Name with a body which contains defilement."
If  this was a typical dialogue between the two groups, and the Pharisees  
originated around 100 B.C.E. it means that at the same time that the Qumran  
people did not use the name, other groups did use  it. 


Be careful about using quotations from Talmud with regard to pronouncing  
"the name" as relevant to the tetragrammaton.  The rabbis generally use  "the 
name" to mean the name written as the tetragrammaton but pronounced  Ad-nai.  
When they want to refer to the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton  as 
written, 
they use the term "the explicit name" (shem hameforash).
 
 
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I don't have an opinion in this regard but recent discussions 
have made me wonder:

Could it be that the pointing of the masoretes only show the 
pronunciation of the period?
And that thus we cannot look to them as a good source for 
archaic vowel pronunciation?
And that consequently the older LLX transliterations give a 
better source for understanding archaic vowel pronunciation? 
(within their limitations)
While the hebrew text helps us to put the consonants in the 
right places that the LLX transliterations were incapable of 
expressing?

Any thoughts on the matter, much appreciated.

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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] IaBe = YHWH or IaBe = Jove?
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Vadim Cherny wrote:

>Besides YHWH - Jove, there is Zvaoth - Zeus parallel. Too much for a
>coincidence. Since YHWH and Zvaoth are meaningful in Hebrew, the direction
>of borrowing is certain.
>
Are you implying that "Zeus" isn't meaningful? My Greek and Latin are a
bit rusty, but isn't it commonly held that Ζευζ (Zeus) is related to the
Latin 'deus' and that both likely come from a common Indo-European root.
And besides a similar--not identical--initial consonant sound, which is
made to look more similar than it is by the choice of transliterating
tsade as 'zv,'  I don't see much of a similarity between 'tsvoath' and
'Zeus.'

Am I missing something?

--
Shalom!
John W. Leys
http://eliyahu5733.blogspot.com/

"Wonder rather than doubt is the root of all knowledge"
        - Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel