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  • From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
  • To: <Bearpecs AT aol.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation
  • Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:24:53 +0100

Either way, the quotation does seem to well illustrate predominant
attitudes instigated by the sect of the pharisees.

Also the transliterations offered by the church fathers show that
a form of the name was still in circulation. Although, I would be
interested to see in what context they make such transliterations.


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Bearpecs AT aol.com
Sent: Sun 7/24/2005 2:12 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] yhwh pronunciation


In a message dated 7/24/2005 7:54:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
furuli AT online.no writes:

before you bathe. The Pharisees reply, "We complain of you Morning-bathers
because you mention the Name with a body which contains defilement."
If this was a typical dialogue between the two groups, and the Pharisees
originated around 100 B.C.E. it means that at the same time that the Qumran
people did not use the name, other groups did use it.


Be careful about using quotations from Talmud with regard to pronouncing
"the name" as relevant to the tetragrammaton. The rabbis generally use "the
name" to mean the name written as the tetragrammaton but pronounced Ad-nai.
When they want to refer to the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton as
written,
they use the term "the explicit name" (shem hameforash).


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I don't have an opinion in this regard but recent discussions
have made me wonder:

Could it be that the pointing of the masoretes only show the
pronunciation of the period?
And that thus we cannot look to them as a good source for
archaic vowel pronunciation?
And that consequently the older LLX transliterations give a
better source for understanding archaic vowel pronunciation?
(within their limitations)
While the hebrew text helps us to put the consonants in the
right places that the LLX transliterations were incapable of
expressing?

Any thoughts on the matter, much appreciated.

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Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:52:09 -0400
From: "John W. Leys" <eliyahu5733 AT gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] IaBe = YHWH or IaBe = Jove?
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Vadim Cherny wrote:

>Besides YHWH - Jove, there is Zvaoth - Zeus parallel. Too much for a
>coincidence. Since YHWH and Zvaoth are meaningful in Hebrew, the direction
>of borrowing is certain.
>
Are you implying that "Zeus" isn't meaningful? My Greek and Latin are a
bit rusty, but isn't it commonly held that Ζευζ (Zeus) is related to the
Latin 'deus' and that both likely come from a common Indo-European root.
And besides a similar--not identical--initial consonant sound, which is
made to look more similar than it is by the choice of transliterating
tsade as 'zv,' I don't see much of a similarity between 'tsvoath' and
'Zeus.'

Am I missing something?

--
Shalom!
John W. Leys
http://eliyahu5733.blogspot.com/

"Wonder rather than doubt is the root of all knowledge"
- Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel





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