Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Thomas L. Thompson" <tlt AT teol.ku.dk>]

Dear Yitzhaq Sapir,
I think Ingrid would be very surprised with the suggestion that she accepts 
or follows Van Seters. For issues of composition--especially in regard to 
Pentateuch and Dtr history, I think her Jerusalem's Rise to Sovereignty, p. 
30-92 contain some of the most important issues. I don't think she gives much 
credence to centuries old theories about JEDP or, indeed, Noth's so-called 
deuteronomistic history. Her own position can be found in Jerusalem's Rise, 
p. 169-222. ´Her 2000 book discusses the relationship of the "SAmaritan 
Pentateuch" with the Samaritans of the pre-Christian period. The issues are 
quite complicated and involve manuscripts and traditions that Wellhausen and 
Noth never considered. 
 
I do not want to speak for my wife, as we do not share the same perspectives 
on the field (I am much more conservative and old fashioned and she has done 
a great deal more work on manuscript traditions than I have). Perhaps in a 
week or so, she can address the issues herself. At present, she is recovering 
from a serious illness and cannot answer you directly.
Thomas
 
Thomas L. Thompson
Professor, University of Copenhagen

        -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- 
        Fra: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org på vegne af Yitzhak Sapir 
        Sendt: sø 20-03-2005 18:27 
        Til: B-Hebrew 
        Cc: ihj AT hum.ku.dk 
        Emne: Re: [b-hebrew] Samaritan script/proto-hebrew
        
        

        Kevin P. Edgecomb wrote:
        > Reference has been made by several to Yitzhak Magen's
        > excavations on Mount Gerizim, where the remains of the
        > Samaritan Temple have been discovered.  I read somewhere
        > that he was (is?) assembling a book for publication at the
        > end of 2004 dealing with the around 500 discovered Samaritan
        > inscriptions, and around 13,000 coins, which date the precinct
        > from early 6th century (!) to its late 2nd century destruction by
        > the Hasmoneans.
        
        I think this is misleading.  These 13000 coins etc include coins
        from the Byzantine periods and onwards, it seems.
        
        > The most comprehensive of the articles so far appears to be
        > Magen, Y. "Mt. Gerizim -A Temple City," Qadmoniot 33.2
        > (2000), 74-119 (in Hebrew).
        
        This volume has additional articles relating to the finds at Mt.
        Gerizim.  From the article on the inscriptions, it seems that
        the Aramaic ones are in Jewish script, ie, after the Persian
        period.  It's unclear what inscriptions there are from the Persian
        period, and the dating to the Persian period of the Temple
        seems to be based on pottery and coins.
        
        Prof. Thompson wrote:
        
        > From Ingrid Hjelm's larger article on recent Samaritan studies, I
        > would like to cite her abstract from p. 9:
        
        > "Apart from the later period of the Hasmonean kingdom,
        > Samaritans and Jews were always separate peoples who had
        > either Gerizim or Jerusalem [respectively] as their main cult
        > place.
        
        I tried to read in the two books by Hjelm that were available to
        me about her views, but I had limited time to read through
        them.  I don't think of them as ever having been unified to the
        point of a single cult center and a single administration.  Rather,
        it seems more of imposed and voluntary peace treaties and
        occupations between the two, as well as the development of a
        shared heritage due to those "treaties."  In the Persian period,
        I believe they had agree to accept as authoritative a common
        Pentateuch, including all sources, each of which had its
        history in one or the other community.  Based on a
        reconstruction of calendarical elements, I believe that the
        Pentateuch makes reference to a 12x30 day calendar with
        an intercalated 30 day month every 6 years.  This calendar,
        in my opinion, is the first one to employ a spring New Year,
        at least in Judea, and it was accepted with Persian
        influence in the 4th century.  This is based, among other
        things, by references to this calendar in Daniel and
        Henoch, which indicate it must have existed by the 3rd
        century.  This would date the redaction of the Pentateuch
        to the mid-4th century and since both Samaritans and
        Jews accepted the Pentateuch largely as a redacted
        complete document, it seems to me that at this date might
        also be a good date for a "peace treaty" between the two
        to accept common religious motives, while perhaps
        agreeing to disagree on a location for the Sanctuary.  I
        realize it is problematic to rest a theory on a reconstruction
        of a calendar that is extremely speculative, but in the end,
        this date of the redaction does not differ greatly from the
        more common dates of redaction proposed on other
        grounds for the Pentateuch, as far as I know.
        
        In my view, then, both were separate peoples, both had
        origins in the First Temple period, that due to wars and
        geographical proximity had caused them to develop
        common religious motives.  Perhaps, in light of this, the
        Edomites should be considered a third group as well, but
        one that did not survive conquest in the Second Temple
        period.  In any case, in the 4th century, both accepted
        upon them the Pentateuch as authoritative, and this
        period of 4th - 2nd century may have been the most
        peaceful amongst them.
        
        It was unclear to me what her view on the Pentateuch is,
        from my skimming of the books.  (Again, I had little time).
        It seems she accepts Van Seters' argument that J is
        post-exilic, as well as various arguments that Qumran is
        not Essene.  She also seemed to mention that the Jews
        borrowed a Samaritan Pentateuch.  This would seem to
        mean that all J, E, P, D, and the redactor were Samaritan
        in origin. I am not sure if her theory of reconstruction
        requires all that, but I generally believe that reconstructions,
        especially where they differ from previous consensus,
        should depend least on other similar "revolutionary"
        reconstructions, because if one "revolutionary" view turns
        out to be misled, it would mean that the whole theory
        falls apart.  Anyway, in all these arguments regarding
        the Deuteronomist vs the Yahwist, I got confused as to
        what is her date for the compilation for the Pentateuch,
        what is her date for the borrowing or mutual acceptance
        by both Jews and Samaritans of the Pentateuch, and
        what is the background for this.  Most of the above is
        based on comments in her "Jerusalem's Rise to
        Sovereignty."  Perhaps you can point me to a specific
        place where she addresses these questions?
        
        Anyhow, thanks again for the summary of her views, as
        well as for the Magen excavation report that is
        unfortunately not available to me now (the Qadmoniot
        volume was).
        
        Yitzhak Sapir
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