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  • From: Tony Costa <tmcos AT rogers.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] First temple destroyed 586 or 587 BCE?
  • Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:35:02 -0400 (EDT)

Dear Rolf, the 2nd Temple was rebuilt in 515 BCE. If we take 586/587 BCE as
the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon to the rebuilding of the 2nd Temple
we have a figure of 70 years . The Temple and its function was integral to
the city of Jerusalem, not necessarily the city itself. Are there any
scholars who hold to the position you take that the fall of Jerusalem to the
Babylonians occurred in 609 BCE which I believe is the date you are proposing?

Tony Costa

Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no> wrote:

I have not read this article, but I have done extensive research
regarding the date of the fall of Jerusalem, and have published a
thorough analysis of the biblical material. If we accept that Babylon
was conquered by Cyrus in 539 B.C.E. and take the biblical passages
dealing with the question at face value, I see no way to accept 587 as
the date for the fall of Jerusalem. This date gives room for only 50
years for the exile, but I cannot see how we can avoid accepting a 70
year exile while Jerusalem was *a desolate waste* if we apply the
normal use of lexicon, grammar and syntax to the pertinent biblical
passages.




Best regards

Rolf Furuli

University of Oslo





Tony Costa

"But I do not consider my life of any account
as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the
ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify
solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God." (Acts 20:24)
>From furuli AT online.no Thu Sep 23 17:48:00 2004
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Dear Tony,

In class today a student complained that the curriculum was so big that
she got no time for independent thinking and research. I agreed, and
told her the this situation will continue to be the same, and when she
reches a level where she will write papers, it is still very hard to do
independent research and express independent opinions in order to get
"A's". Fortunately, I started my academic studies as a grown up person
when I already had done independent research and had independent ideas.
That is one reason why I challenge the traditional view of classical
Hebrew verbs and traditional chronology.

My post was not written in order to defend a particular date for the
fall of Jerusalem, but rather to point out a situation which in my view
is unhealthy, namely, that so many fine people bow down under the weight
of authority. There is hardly any part of ancient chronology which is so
thoroghly witnessed as the new Babylonian chronology, and because of
this the information found in the Bible is hardly taken seriously
(linguistically speaking) by most researchers, but this information is
adjusted to conform with what the historians say. And this is my point:
The information found in the Bible is impossible to conform with the New
Babylonian chronology. I repeat: In this context I do not defend a
particular date, and I do not defend the Bible, saying that its
information is true and the historians are wrong (I have of course my
own opinion which I may state in another context, but in this context my
opinion is irrelevant).

As a linguist I know that language is ambiguous, but not worse than it
is possible to write a manual for a computer that can be used to do
intricate operations. At least some of the language that is used
regarding the exile is very clear, and I see no possibility to avoid the
conclusion that Jerusalem and Juda according to this information was a
desolate waste for a full 70 years. this is impossible to conform with
Babylonian chronology! Whether people will believe this information is
another question, but the unhealthy situation is to take the historical
viewpoints as facts, and then adjust the biblical information on the
basis of this.

As to the acceptance of other scholars of one's views, I would like to
quote some words of the retired professor who taught me Semitic
languages, Ebbe E. Knudsen: In his article "Central Semitic *yaqtulum
Reconsidered A Rejoinder to J. Tropper. Journal of Semitic Studies 43
(1):1-9 he writes: “Having decided on an issue by weighting the
arguments for and against it, Semitists often refer to their results as
established facts. A clearer indication of a probability rate is a
desideratum.” Regarding the question under discussion, he writes (p. 5):
“Tropper, like several other Semitists before him, simply states the
majority view without mentioning the minority view.”


Fortunately, I teach and read Akkadian cuneiform, and I have studied
many of the important chronological sources. That has given me a real
reason for sceptcism regarding the traditional chronology. For example,
it seems that no scholar has in the last 50 years made a systematic
check of the the sources of the chronological "Bible," namely, the work
of Parker and Dubberstein. It has simply been accepted without question.
But progress is first made when radical questions are asked. I have
checked all the sources of this work, and I quote from the abstract of
my book on chronology:

"A study of each cuneiform document used by P&D to show in which regnal
years of Babylonian and Persian kings intercalary months were added,
reveals that 51 percent of the "evidence" used by P&D has no real value,
in this author's judgement. A comparison of 1450 cuneiform tablets dated
in the reigns of the Persian kings reveals tablets for most of the kings
that contradict P&D's scheme, which was based on first and last tablet
dated to each king. On this basis it is argued that the chronology of
P&D should be radically revised.


Best regards

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo


Tony Costa wrote:

>Dear Rolf, the 2nd Temple was rebuilt in 515 BCE. If we take 586/587 BCE as
>the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon to the rebuilding of the 2nd Temple
>we have a figure of 70 years . The Temple and its function was integral to
>the city of Jerusalem, not necessarily the city itself. Are there any
>scholars who hold to the position you take that the fall of Jerusalem to the
>Babylonians occurred in 609 BCE which I believe is the date you are
>proposing?
>
>Tony Costa
>
>Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no> wrote:
>
>I have not read this article, but I have done extensive research
>regarding the date of the fall of Jerusalem, and have published a
>thorough analysis of the biblical material. If we accept that Babylon
>was conquered by Cyrus in 539 B.C.E. and take the biblical passages
>dealing with the question at face value, I see no way to accept 587 as
>the date for the fall of Jerusalem. This date gives room for only 50
>years for the exile, but I cannot see how we can avoid accepting a 70
>year exile while Jerusalem was *a desolate waste* if we apply the
>normal use of lexicon, grammar and syntax to the pertinent biblical
>passages.
>
>
>
>
>Best regards
>
>Rolf Furuli
>
>University of Oslo
>
>
>
>
>
>Tony Costa
>
>
>
>





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