Biblical Hebrew Forum

[MarianneLuban AT aol.com]

In a message dated 8/29/2004 4:38:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MarianneLuban 
writes:


> In a message dated 8/29/2004 2:52:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> peterkirk AT qaya.org writes:
> 
> 
> >>Rameses II 943-877
> >>Merenptah 888(co-regent)-877 (forced to flee to Kush soon after his 
> >>father's death)
> >>Amenmesse 877-873 (= Osarsiph, usurper backed by Asiatics)
> >>Seti II ??-873 (co-regent with or rival of Amenmesse, died about the 
> >>same time as Amenmesse)
> >>Siptah 873-868
> >>Tausert 868-865 (regent from 873)
> >>Setnakht 865-859
> >>Rameses II 863-832 (initially as co-regent)
> >>
> >>In this version, Setnakht (son of Merenptah) does not die before the 
> >>reign of Tausert. In fact he returns from exile in Kush and overthrows 
> >>Tausert and her Asiatic backers.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >The problem with that is that Setnakht was the beginner of the 20th 
> >Dynasty--while Merneptah belonged to the 19th.  There is no evidence 
> anywhere that 
> >Setnakht was the son of Merneptah.  In fact there is evidence to the 
> contrary--and 
> >that Setnakht was a commoner.  I have in front of me the Elephantine Stela 
> of 
> >Setnakht, on which it says "He was chosen, His Majesty as "the One in a 
> >Million", regardless of countless others being more significant than he".  
> One 
> >would scarcely think that Setnakht would have written this about himself 
> had he 
> >been a son of the former pharaoh, Merneptah and been in the direct line of 
> >succession. ...
> >
> 
> >>I must say I had already wondered about that. Rohl's scenario would make 
> more sense if Setnakht were a commoner who had gone into exile with 
> Merenptah and took over as leader of the group of exiles. I think Rohl 
> gets the idea of him being a son from Manetho's "Sethos son of 
> Amenophis", but I guess Manetho could well have confused Seti II son of 
> Merenptah with the similarly named but unrelated Setnakht, or could 
> simply have meant "son" as "successor".>>
> 
> See this, then.  I just put it up now, although it is part of my next book. 
>  
> http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/Lepers.html
> 
> 
> >... For further remarks on Setnakht in the Classic memory, see
> >
> >http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/setnakht.html
> >  
> >
> 
> >>Interesting. In the same chapter Rohl dates the Trojan War 872-863 (so 
> agreeing with Diodorus Siculus that this was in the time of Setnakht), 
> and Menelaus visiting Setnakht (= Thouris = Polybus) soon afterwards. I 
> am sure Rohl's chronology could be adjusted sufficiently to have 
> Menelaus visiting Tausert instead with your identification, but wouldn't 
> the Greeks have realised that it was a woman he visited?>>
> 
> They did--and called her Polydamna.  She was the one who introduced the 
> Greeks to a drug--nepenthe--which made people forget their woes.  What the 
> Greeks 
> didn't realize that this Polydamna was the same as Thouris.
> 
> >>But your visit to Egypt by Helen would have to be earlier. Indeed, your 
> synchronisms of Helen visiting Setnakht before the Trojan War and Menelaus 
> visiting Tausert after the Trojan war both work only if Setnakht precedes 
> Tausert, and that is what Joe said is impossible.>>
> 
> But I didn't say anything about "before" or "after" the Trojan War.  It is 
> only said that Proteios, which I equate with Setnakt, ruled around the time 
> of 
> the Trojan War.
> 
> >>I wonder if Rohl tried to bring both of these synchronisms into an 
> >>earlier 
> version of his chronology but was forced to make adjustments by the 
> evidence 
> from Tausert's tomb.>>
> 
> I wouldn't know anything about that.  But I do know this:  Tawosret was a 
> female regent for a young king named Siptah, a puppet of Bey, the 
> "kingmaker".  
> Bey was obviously allied with Tawosret.  My conclusion is that, at some 
> point, this Siptah became troublesome and Tawosret usurped his 
> prerogative--in a 
> Hatshepsut-like maneuver.  But it also looks like Siptah killed Bey.  
> Siptah 
> was the son of an unknown pharaoh but his mother had a foreign name, 
> shortened to Tiaa.  Sorry, but the tomb of Tawosret, where she is at first 
> shown with 
> Siptah, was usurped by Setnakht.  The tomb of Tawosret appears to depict 
> some stages.  As I said, at first she is shown with Siptah--as his regent.  
> Then 
> she is shown with her husband, Seti II, his names being written over those 
> of Siptah.  Then Setnakht takes over the tomb--his images replacing the 
> earlier ones of Tawosret.  It is the sarcophagus of Setnakht that was found 
> in the 
> tomb--not that of Tawosret.  Hers was taken out in ancient times and later 
> reused to hold the body of a Ramesside prince.  So Tawosret was never 
> buried in 
> that tomb.
> 
> 
> 
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