Biblical Hebrew Forum

[MarianneLuban AT aol.com]

In a message dated 8/29/2004 2:52:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
peterkirk AT qaya.org writes:


>>Rameses II 943-877
>>Merenptah 888(co-regent)-877 (forced to flee to Kush soon after his 
>>father's death)
>>Amenmesse 877-873 (= Osarsiph, usurper backed by Asiatics)
>>Seti II ??-873 (co-regent with or rival of Amenmesse, died about the 
>>same time as Amenmesse)
>>Siptah 873-868
>>Tausert 868-865 (regent from 873)
>>Setnakht 865-859
>>Rameses II 863-832 (initially as co-regent)
>>
>>In this version, Setnakht (son of Merenptah) does not die before the 
>>reign of Tausert. In fact he returns from exile in Kush and overthrows 
>>Tausert and her Asiatic backers.
>>    
>>
>
>The problem with that is that Setnakht was the beginner of the 20th 
>Dynasty--while Merneptah belonged to the 19th.  There is no evidence 
anywhere that 
>Setnakht was the son of Merneptah.  In fact there is evidence to the 
contrary--and 
>that Setnakht was a commoner.  I have in front of me the Elephantine Stela 
of 
>Setnakht, on which it says "He was chosen, His Majesty as "the One in a 
>Million", regardless of countless others being more significant than he".  
One 
>would scarcely think that Setnakht would have written this about himself had 
he 
>been a son of the former pharaoh, Merneptah and been in the direct line of 
>succession. ...
>

>>I must say I had already wondered about that. Rohl's scenario would make 
more sense if Setnakht were a commoner who had gone into exile with 
Merenptah and took over as leader of the group of exiles. I think Rohl 
gets the idea of him being a son from Manetho's "Sethos son of 
Amenophis", but I guess Manetho could well have confused Seti II son of 
Merenptah with the similarly named but unrelated Setnakht, or could 
simply have meant "son" as "successor".>>

See this, then.  I just put it up now, although it is part of my next book.  
http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/Lepers.html


>... For further remarks on Setnakht in the Classic memory, see
>
>http://www.geocities.com/scribelist/setnakht.html
>  
>

>>Interesting. In the same chapter Rohl dates the Trojan War 872-863 (so 
agreeing with Diodorus Siculus that this was in the time of Setnakht), 
and Menelaus visiting Setnakht (= Thouris = Polybus) soon afterwards. I 
am sure Rohl's chronology could be adjusted sufficiently to have 
Menelaus visiting Tausert instead with your identification, but wouldn't 
the Greeks have realised that it was a woman he visited?>>

They did--and called her Polydamna.  She was the one who introduced the 
Greeks to a drug--nepenthe--which made people forget their woes.  What the 
Greeks 
didn't realize that this Polydamna was the same as Thouris.

 >>But your visit to Egypt by Helen would have to be earlier. Indeed, your 
synchronisms of Helen visiting Setnakht before the Trojan War and Menelaus 
visiting Tausert after the Trojan war both work only if Setnakht precedes 
Tausert, and that is what Joe said is impossible.>>

But I didn't say anything about "before" or "after" the Trojan War.  It is 
only said that Proteios, which I equate with Setnakt, ruled around the time 
of 
the Trojan War.

>>I wonder if Rohl tried to bring both of these synchronisms into an earlier 
version of his chronology but was forced to make adjustments by the evidence 
from Tausert's tomb.>>

I wouldn't know anything about that.  But I do know this:  Tawosret was a 
female regent for a young king named Siptah, a puppet of Bey, the 
"kingmaker".  
Bey was obviously allied with Tawosret.  My conclusion is that, at some 
point, 
this Siptah became troublesome and Tawosret usurped his prerogative--in a 
Hatshepsut-like maneuver.  But it also looks like Siptah killed Bey.  Siptah 
was 
the son of an unknown pharaoh but his mother had a foreign name, shortened to 
Tiaa.  Sorry, but the tomb of Tawosret, where she is at first shown with 
Siptah, was usurped by Setnakht.  The tomb of Tawosret appears to depict some 
stages.  As I said, at first she is shown with Siptah--as his regent.  Then 
she is 
shown with her husband, Seti II, his names being written over those of 
Siptah.  
Then Setnakht takes over the tomb--his images replacing the earlier ones of 
Tawosret.  It is the sarcophagus of Setnakht that was found in the tomb--not 
that of Tawosret.  Hers was taken out in ancient times and later reused to 
hold 
the body of a Ramesside prince.  So Tawosret was never buried in that tomb.