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  • From: "Eduard C Hanganu" <eddhanganu AT hotmail.com>
  • To: peterkirk AT qaya.org
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Relevance Theory & Hebrew Semantics
  • Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:14:06 -0500


Dear Peter:

Of course, "mimicry of Isaiah's words, perh. senseless." We use such expressions in common English too ("blah, blah, blah"), when we want to be ironic with someone or dismiss him. But how is this evidence supporting the idea that the discourse fragment lacks cohesion, coherence and logicality?
I believe this blabbering clearly refers back to the beginning of the chapter:

KJV Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! {overcome: Heb. broken}

and

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet: {under...: Heb. with feet}

The whole chapter 28 in Isaiah is an ironic discourse on the "drunkards of Ephraim" who have lost their reason and sense and right and wrong through drunkenness and cannot be taught the ways of the Lord anymore because of their condition, together with the priest and prophet of verse 7 who "are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment."

I see the whole chapter as a very cohesive and coherent message of rebuke from the Lord to those who have disregarded the Divine counsel and have fallen pray to the intoxicating influence of alcohol and therefore cannot be instructed anymore in the ways of the Lord if they remain in their state.

Eduard


From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
To: Eduard C Hanganu <eddhanganu AT hotmail.com>
CC: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Relevance Theory & Hebrew Semantics
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:22:12 +0100

On 19/08/2004 03:40, Eduard C Hanganu wrote:


...

You mention Isaiah 28:10,13 as an example of a "deliberately nonsensical passage." How did you reach such a conclusion? In most English translations this passage makes rather good sense, the way I understand it. What is your reading of this text?


It is a common interpretation of the words quoted here: CAW LFCFW CAW LFCFW QAV LFQFW QAW LFQFW that they are in v.10 a representation of the speakers' incomprehensible mutterings, a bit like "rhubarb, rhubarb" in English, and that the point of v.13 (cf. v.11) is that their foreign conquerors' speech will be similarly incomprehensible.

For support, see for example JPS Tanakh "mutter upon mutter, murmur upon murmur", and BDB s.v. QAW "mimicry of Isaiah's words, perh. senseless". I have seen more elsewhere but I can't find it now.


--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/

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